REGION 4 DOMINATION

[TrueSouthFanInPburg]

With our current Coaches Ratings R-4 has 61 wrestlers rated. R-1 has 35, R-3 has 28 and R-2 only has 16. Right now there would be 9 wrestlers from R-4 that would not go to the State Tourney. If the State Tourney was today there would be 15 wrestlers from R-2 competing with losing records.

[aaacoach11]

That's a shame. Same thing will happen in Region 1 AA/A. Regions could've easily been balanced more fairly. The classification changes and regional realignment has been really bad for the WV wrestling. Need to maybe look at having just 2 regions, a North and South, and taking the top 8 finishers from each region. Combine regions 1 and 2 and regions 3 and 4. This would add much more parity to your 16 man bracket at States. Could still use a pill system and guarantee your 2 regional champs would be in different brackets.

[magna145]

Unfortunately six of the top 10 wrestlers, at 113, are in region four. Going to be some good kids left behind for the state tournament. It's a shame.

[NhsMom]

Rankings mean nothing when it comes to regionals. Every kid who goes has an equal shot. Last year in AAA 160, Region 4, my son was unranked and beat out one ranked kids to Punch his ticket and another ranked kid also lost out. If a kid is " left out" it's because he got beat. Period. That is what I love about wrestling. Every match is an opportunity to win, regardless of ranking or record. That region had 5 kids ranked and only three of those made the state tournament. Anything can happen at regionals. Even if a region only has 4 or 3 or 2 ranked, they can be beat. It's not a guarantee. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the tournament, we would poll up to 16 and take those kids.

[greencrush]

Rankings mean nothing when it comes to regionals. Every kid who goes has an equal shot. Last year in AAA 160, Region 4, my son was unranked and beat out one ranked kids to Punch his ticket and another ranked kid also lost out. If a kid is " left out" it's because he got beat. Period. That is what I love about wrestling. Every match is an opportunity to win, regardless of ranking or record. That region had 5 kids ranked and only three of those made the state tournament. Anything can happen at regionals. Even if a region only has 4 or 3 or 2 ranked, they can be beat. It's not a guarantee. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the tournament, we would poll up to 16 and take those kids.

I agree 100% with this. Ranking are just for the entertainment of the fans; they hold no meaning. Many good wrestlers don't have a coach logging in and pulling for them to be ranked, so unless they get to go to the Z's or Winners choice, they aren't going to show up on anyone's radar until regionals.
That's not to say that the ranked wrestlers are not good, just that sometimes kids get overlooked. Especially if their team wrestles out of state often.

[Jbee]

Rankings mean nothing when it comes to regionals. Every kid who goes has an equal shot. Last year in AAA 160, Region 4, my son was unranked and beat out one ranked kids to Punch his ticket and another ranked kid also lost out. If a kid is " left out" it's because he got beat. Period. That is what I love about wrestling. Every match is an opportunity to win, regardless of ranking or record. That region had 5 kids ranked and only three of those made the state tournament. Anything can happen at regionals. Even if a region only has 4 or 3 or 2 ranked, they can be beat. It's not a guarantee. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the tournament, we would poll up to 16 and take those kids.

Best post I've seen on here in 3 years!...period!

[guard0544]

Rankings mean nothing when it comes to regionals. Every kid who goes has an equal shot. Last year in AAA 160, Region 4, my son was unranked and beat out one ranked kids to Punch his ticket and another ranked kid also lost out. If a kid is " left out" it's because he got beat. Period. That is what I love about wrestling. Every match is an opportunity to win, regardless of ranking or record. That region had 5 kids ranked and only three of those made the state tournament. Anything can happen at regionals. Even if a region only has 4 or 3 or 2 ranked, they can be beat. It's not a guarantee. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the tournament, we would poll up to 16 and take those kids.

For the most part, the rankings are sound. They are based on head to head results and common opponents. Obviously there may be a few kids who slip through the cracks and should be ranked, or there may be some upsets at the regional tournament. But lets not act as if rankings tell us nothing. They certainly provide insight into the depth of competition within a region. That is all the post was getting at. He was pointing out there is a significant concentration of ranked wrestlers in certain regions, and its a shame some of those talented kids wont be making it to the state tournament. If you do not like rankings...then do a similar comparison looking at returning state placers. You will find a similar concentration of returning state placers in each region.

[WHSMOM]

Yes wrestling is a sport any given day a wrestler can be beat. Yes ranking do not determine the out come. Yes wrestler can be strong and good with out being ranked. Yes a wrestler can be unranked and for lack of a better word "suck". Yes a wrestler can peak at regionals and earn a spot. However a wrestler can also "earn" a spot because they are in the right region when they would not if they were in a different region. Yes wrestlers who are among the top performers will stay home because they are in a "bad "region. I think the point to the topic and most could agree the current system gives some wrestlers in some regions an advantage and leaves others at a disadvantage. I would like to see one more day added to states where the 4th 5th and 6th place finishes battle to make the final bracket. Then regions would not really effect the final out come. Each wrestler would be responsible for their win or loss.

[Sally]

This topic has been around before. When Region 1 AAA and A/AA were dominating the state tournaments, the rest of the state did not mind the unfairness. I would like to see the BYE in the state tournament bracket fixed due to low numbers in a particular weight class.

If there is a weight class in any region with 5 or more ranked kids, then someone is staying home. If people do not like the current system they need their coach to speak up at the coach's association meeting Friday morning at the state tournament. A possible solution is to use "At Large Bids" like the NCAA uses. This would allow a selection committee, (probably coaches who would use results posted), to bring in a 5th place kid to the state tournament.

There will still be upsets coming Thursday night at states. My guess is most of these upsets will be from Region 4 AAA.

[Bearhugger]

This topic has been around before. When Region 1 AAA and A/AA were dominating the state tournaments, the rest of the state did not mind the unfairness. I would like to see the BYE in the state tournament bracket fixed due to low numbers in a particular weight class.

If there is a weight class in any region with 5 or more ranked kids, then someone is staying home. If people do not like the current system they need their coach to speak up at the coach's association meeting Friday morning at the state tournament. A possible solution is to use "At Large Bids" like the NCAA uses. This would allow a selection committee, (probably coaches who would use results posted), to bring in a 5th place kid to the state tournament.

There will still be upsets coming Thursday night at states. My guess is most of these upsets will be from Region 4 AAA.

I agree. It was predicted much earlier in the season on another post/topic that we will see an increase in regional champions lose on Thursday night because of 4th place winners coming out of region 4. The same could happen in AA/A with the 4th place winners from region 1. All we can do now is sit back and wait for that Thursday night to come.

[Jbee]

A ranked wrestler gets beat and doesn't make make the state tournament. wow that is terrible........ we must do something to make sure he goes.
A regional Champ gets beat on the first night. just awe full............we must stop this kind of none sense, this cant happen.

Regions have not been fair for years.


What happened to winning? not good enough anymore.

[aaacoach95]

A ranked wrestler gets beat and doesn't make make the state tournament. wow that is terrible........ we must do something to make sure he goes.
A regional Champ gets beat on the first night. just awe full............we must stop this kind of none sense, this cant happen.

Regions have not been fair for years.


What happened to winning? not good enough anymore.

Perfect answer. Stop whining and worry about winning.

[mattman]

Alotta these kids imo could be over ranked. Certain schools are either over or under or maybe even not ranked at all because of the particular school they represent. I seen south had a few kids ranked top 2,3, or 4 when the first set of rankings were released and now those same kids are ranked closer to the bottom of the top 10. Before the south guys get wadded up its not only south. When we think wrestling schools in this state we automatically think the wrestlers from South, Indy, PHS, Huntington, East, Cabell Midland, Wirt and Calhoun And a few more are gonna have the wrestlers on the podium at the end. The fact is, wrestling in WV is growing and getting better as a whole every year. It's getting to the point now that many kids are tough enough to stand a chance against most of the top kids if they wrestle well. Your gonna see those high ranked kids drop a quarter final match and assume it's an upset but the fact is that the underdog worked just as hard or even harder than the kid they beat. Styles make matches and maybe wrestler A is the favorite over wrestler B but wrestler B worked his tail off and peaked at the right time to get the job done. Another scenario is maybe the heavily favored wrestler A is very technical but not very strong and wrestler B is a little raw but strong as a bull? A strong opponent gives many wrestlers problems and that's why I say styles make matches.. One mistake for a 5 point move and your toast! That is why I love this sport.

[vortexfan]

I like the upsets too and the love of the sport but as stated in many posts by dedicated fans and coaches the best kids should be a states. One school that I keep in mind is Ripley one of the smallest AAA schools but is in the brutal Region 4 AAA; also some very good wrestlers won't go to the states just due to the fact of this regional alignment it's a shame!

[aaacoach95]

So I am just curious, what is the correct answer for regional alignment? I see many ideas on here about 2 regions, 3 regions, change the regions, etc...so what happens in two years, or even next year, when everyone on here thinks it's unfair again? Just realign again? What happens when one of the perceived "weak" regions has a crop of middle school studs come up? Oh, well we better realign again...or better yet, maybe we should just have one big open tournament to determine the state champions?

[Bearhugger]

So I am just curious, what is the correct answer for regional alignment? I see many ideas on here about 2 regions, 3 regions, change the regions, etc...so what happens in two years, or even next year, when everyone on here thinks it's unfair again? Just realign again? What happens when one of the perceived "weak" regions has a crop of middle school studs come up? Oh, well we better realign again...or better yet, maybe we should just have one big open tournament to determine the state champions?

One of the may great things about the WVMAT website is that it has a wealth of historical data. Scores, state tournament results, state place winners, etc.

This is 2017. Go back and look at 2007, 1997, 1987 and 1977. Look at the top 10 teams in AAA. For the most part, the biggest change is that some of these teams are now in AA/A. They have shifted from a top 10 AAA team to a top 10 AA/A team.

This is decades of history. Parkersburg South, Parkersburg and Huntington have been powerhouses for decades. Now all three are in the same region. How does this make sense to any of you?????

I do not see Capital High School, South Charleston, or Princeton becoming wrestling powerhouses anytime in the next 10 years. If they do, then that will give region 3 some strength.

As for middle school studs coming in, lets look at the middle school WSAZ results. Point seems to have a good bunch coming up. Point Pleasant High School is in AA now. This will not impact AAA's regions any. I am sure South's, PHS and HHS have plenty of good incoming kids.

Capital has two middle schools feeding it. Only one has a wrestling team.

[vortexfan]

So I am just curious, what is the correct answer for regional alignment? I see many ideas on here about 2 regions, 3 regions, change the regions, etc...so what happens in two years, or even next year, when everyone on here thinks it's unfair again? Just realign again? What happens when one of the perceived "weak" regions has a crop of middle school studs come up? Oh, well we better realign again...or better yet, maybe we should just have one big open tournament to determine the state champions?

This school situations may change many times in years to come whether consolidations; realignments of AAA to AA or vise versa if you go to two Region format not a lot would have to change regardless of what schools get the crop of talent in future years, the best wrestlers should be competeing at the states. Think of the entire situation, byes, lower number of wrestlers, JVs, coaches, athletes and the revenue for SSAC. A lot of good ideas out there too but majority of wrestling enthusiasts know something needs changed from present situation.