wvmat.com

Take a look at these two regions brackets.

Are they posted somewhere?

Never mind. Found them.

Yikes. Several weight classes with only 5-6 kids. Heck I think the biggest weight class may have 7 kids in it. Found a couple with only 4 kids. So everyone qualifies for states in that weight class as along as they make weight. Hopefully the WVSSAC sees this and changes are made for next year.

Yikes. Several weight classes with only 5-6 kids. Heck I think the biggest weight class may have 7 kids in it. Found a couple with only 4 kids. So everyone qualifies for states in that weight class as along as they make weight. Hopefully the WVSSAC sees this and changes are made for next year.

There are 4 regions AAA. There are 29 teams AAA.
Regions I, II, and IV have 7 teams. Region III has 8 teams.

uknowme wrote:Yikes. Several weight classes with only 5-6 kids. Heck I think the biggest weight class may have 7 kids in it. Found a couple with only 4 kids. So everyone qualifies for states in that weight class as along as they make weight. Hopefully the WVSSAC sees this and changes are made for next year.

120 & 220 are the 2 weight classes with 4 wrestlers. All 8 qualify automatically.

I think there are 16 ranked wrestlers in region 2 compared to 60 in region 4. I know, some think rankings mean nothing, but it's glaring!

If you want a wakeup call WVSSAC, just look at the 152 bracket in the two regions. Even the top ranked wrestler in the state in region 4(Zane Hinzman) is seeded 3rd! The top 3 ranked wrestlers in WV are seeded 1,2 and 3 here! No ranked 152 wrestlers are listed in region 2.

I'm not saying this to pick on region 2, it's just a fact.

120 & 220 are the 2 weight classes with 4 wrestlers. All 8 qualify automatically.

Easy Gator! These boys gotta make weight first .
I'm sure they will, good luck to all.

Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

Gator wrote:

uknowme wrote:Yikes. Several weight classes with only 5-6 kids. Heck I think the biggest weight class may have 7 kids in it. Found a couple with only 4 kids. So everyone qualifies for states in that weight class as along as they make weight. Hopefully the WVSSAC sees this and changes are made for next year.

120 & 220 are the 2 weight classes with 4 wrestlers. All 8 qualify automatically.

I think there are 16 ranked wrestlers in region 2 compared to 60 in region 4. I know, some think rankings mean nothing, but it's glaring!

If you want a wakeup call WVSSAC, just look at the 152 bracket in the two regions. Even the top ranked wrestler in the state in region 4(Zane Hinzman) is seeded 3rd! The top 3 ranked wrestlers in WV are seeded 1,2 and 3 here! No ranked 152 wrestlers are listed in region 2.

I'm not saying this to pick on region 2, it's just a fact.

Wow!!! Hizeman seeded 3rd. Saw him wrestle Thursday and he's the real deal. Quick and athletic. Seeing he, Holley and Lanham go at it is worth the price of admission.

Region I brackets are in. I see no byes at the state tournament yet. Still waiting on Region III.

mike.carman wrote:Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

For consistenty in the future years it should be 2 Regionals and top 8 go! Year in Year out it would be the way go! Lots of luck to all the wrestlers!

vortexfan wrote:

mike.carman wrote:Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

For consistenty in the future years it should be 2 Regionals and top 8 go! Year in Year out it would be the way go! Lots of luck to all the wrestlers!

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm all for simplification. I am only referencing what is going on right now.

mike.carman wrote:Region I brackets are in. I see no byes at the state tournament yet. Still waiting on Region III.

The biggest concern was AAA region 2 at 120. They now have 4 wrestlers.

One given school has a 120 pounder listed for the first time all season. This same wrestler only appears one time in the scores section and he was at 132.

mike.carman wrote:Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

. So what you are saying, more or less equals to a watered down State Tournament in some weight classes. WOW You can take a lot of the 5 th place kids from Region 4, who is more than likely ranked in top 10, but sitting home instead of wrestling in State Tournament, and they would have 50/50 chance of beating the other regions top 4 placers. Probably already beat them at some point during the year, but they are home because some suit did'nt do their home work before they created this mess.

mike.carman wrote:Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

The current regional set up is a mountain of a mess. Approximately 44% of the top wrestlers are jam packed into region 1 for AA/A and region 4 for AAA.

The rankings are an indication of who is winning, who is losing and how each wrestler is doing against common opponents. All of which is typical criteria used to seed tournaments.

Nobody would like to have a tournament where the top four best wrestlers are packed into the same bracket and meeting each other in the first round.

As for state tournament byes versus each region digging up at least 4 wrestlers per weight class, just how often does a person, a team, a region, an organization or even a state continue to dodge bullets? "Dodged bullets" are an indication of a problem. Ignoring problems can destroy sports and destroy states.

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

The current regional set up is a mountain of a mess. Approximately 44% of the top wrestlers are jam packed into region 1 for AA/A and region 4 for AAA.

The rankings are an indication of who is winning, who is losing and how each wrestler is doing against common opponents. All of which is typical criteria used to seed tournaments.

Nobody would like to have a tournament where the top four best wrestlers are packed into the same bracket and meeting each other in the first round.

As for state tournament byes versus each region digging up at least 4 wrestlers per weight class, just how often does a person, a team, a region, an organization or even a state continue to dodge bullets? "Dodged bullets" are an indication of a problem. Ignoring problems can destroy sports and destroy states.

Relax Bear. I actually see things your way to a point. Not 100% but maybe 75%.
I don't agree with the WVSSAC leveling the playing field. It has been one of my biggest gripes about the organization for a long time. I don't like seeing some of the tougher opponents stay home. Likewise I can't see allowing JV in when we have ranked wrestlers staying home either. I don't care what region you are from. And I certainly don't want to see byes at the state tournament. I don't think there is a big enough pool of schools in AAA. I think the classes should be more balanced. I also think the regions should be different for each sport. That would allow for a more competitive atmosphere. There are a lot of things that can be done. I also hate how long it takes to effect change. I like to fix things when they are broken, not leave them broken and hope they fix themselves.

Mike.carman that's ridiculous. Region 4 is so overpowered. Look at the ranked kids in region 4 vs region 2. 145 in region 4 has 5 ranked kids while region 2 145's haven't touched the top 10

mike.carman wrote:

vortexfan wrote:

mike.carman wrote:Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

For consistenty in the future years it should be 2 Regionals and top 8 go! Year in Year out it would be the way go! Lots of luck to all the wrestlers!

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm all for simplification. I am only referencing what is going on right now.

Thanks for the reply this is just sad for some talented wrestlers! I agree with your later post too about how long it takes fix things! Also do not like to hear the former or present coaches and wrestlers say it's been this way for years! There's several solid wrestlers that will. It. E at the states due to this regional mess. Good luck to your son he is solid wrestler!

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:Well if you look at the total number of wrestlers per region it is 81 compared to 88. They only differ by 7 kids total for 14 weight classes and there will be 4 representatives from each weight class from each region. We will have to see what Region I and III look like before we get too involved with this. Yes, I know Region IV has a few weight classes with more than 4 ranked wrestlers. All I am saying is that the numbers are not justifying what you want to see. Not yet. Remember, the WVSSAC is all about leveling the playing field. In this case I would say they succeeded. It will be an opportunity for some kid to place at states that otherwise doesn't have a shot. Not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is. Definitely will be some kids that probably shouldn't be there, but it might be the highlight of their HS athletic career too.

Sorry guys, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As long as there are numbers from each region and being that wrestling is certainly not the dictating sport that establishes the said regions, I don't see the WVSSAC doing anything about this.

Now provided these numbers don't get worse for Regions I and III, there will be no byes at the state tournament, baring any injuries, illnesses or skin conditions.

The current regional set up is a mountain of a mess. Approximately 44% of the top wrestlers are jam packed into region 1 for AA/A and region 4 for AAA.

The rankings are an indication of who is winning, who is losing and how each wrestler is doing against common opponents. All of which is typical criteria used to seed tournaments.

Nobody would like to have a tournament where the top four best wrestlers are packed into the same bracket and meeting each other in the first round.

As for state tournament byes versus each region digging up at least 4 wrestlers per weight class, just how often does a person, a team, a region, an organization or even a state continue to dodge bullets? "Dodged bullets" are an indication of a problem. Ignoring problems can destroy sports and destroy states.

Relax Bear. I actually see things your way to a point. Not 100% but maybe 75%.
I don't agree with the WVSSAC leveling the playing field. It has been one of my biggest gripes about the organization for a long time. I don't like seeing some of the tougher opponents stay home. Likewise I can't see allowing JV in when we have ranked wrestlers staying home either. I don't care what region you are from. And I certainly don't want to see byes at the state tournament. I don't think there is a big enough pool of schools in AAA. I think the classes should be more balanced. I also think the regions should be different for each sport. That would allow for a more competitive atmosphere. There are a lot of things that can be done. I also hate how long it takes to effect change. I like to fix things when they are broken, not leave them broken and hope they fix themselves.

In a match, a wrestler often has seconds to make a decision. At most, a wrestler has 6 minutes to make a decision. Taking two years to make a decision is unacceptable in any organization. High school wrestlers have 4 years. Half of that time is tied up in decision making. Just what do the WVSSAC personnel do each day, throughout the year?

vortexfan wrote:

mike.carman wrote:

vortexfan wrote:
For consistenty in the future years it should be 2 Regionals and top 8 go! Year in Year out it would be the way go! Lots of luck to all the wrestlers!

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm all for simplification. I am only referencing what is going on right now.

Thanks for the reply this is just sad for some talented wrestlers! I agree with your later post too about how long it takes fix things! Also do not like to hear the former or present coaches and wrestlers say it's been this way for years! There's several solid wrestlers that will not make to the states due to this regional mess. Good luck to your son he is solid wrestler!
Thanks for the reply this is just sad for some talented wrestlers! I agree with your later post too about how long it takes fix things! Also do not like to hear the former or present coaches and wrestlers say it's been this way for years! There's several solid wrestlers that will not make to the states due to this regional mess. Good luck to your son he is solid wrestler!

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:
The current regional set up is a mountain of a mess. Approximately 44% of the top wrestlers are jam packed into region 1 for AA/A and region 4 for AAA.

The rankings are an indication of who is winning, who is losing and how each wrestler is doing against common opponents. All of which is typical criteria used to seed tournaments.

Nobody would like to have a tournament where the top four best wrestlers are packed into the same bracket and meeting each other in the first round.

As for state tournament byes versus each region digging up at least 4 wrestlers per weight class, just how often does a person, a team, a region, an organization or even a state continue to dodge bullets? "Dodged bullets" are an indication of a problem. Ignoring problems can destroy sports and destroy states.

Relax Bear. I actually see things your way to a point. Not 100% but maybe 75%.
I don't agree with the WVSSAC leveling the playing field. It has been one of my biggest gripes about the organization for a long time. I don't like seeing some of the tougher opponents stay home. Likewise I can't see allowing JV in when we have ranked wrestlers staying home either. I don't care what region you are from. And I certainly don't want to see byes at the state tournament. I don't think there is a big enough pool of schools in AAA. I think the classes should be more balanced. I also think the regions should be different for each sport. That would allow for a more competitive atmosphere. There are a lot of things that can be done. I also hate how long it takes to effect change. I like to fix things when they are broken, not leave them broken and hope they fix themselves.

In a match, a wrestler often has seconds to make a decision. At most, a wrestler has 6 minutes to make a decision. Taking two years to make a decision is unacceptable in any organization. High school wrestlers have 4 years. Half of that time is tied up in decision making. Just what do the WVSSAC personnel do each day, throughout the year?

The people who work for the SSAC are good people. Their hands are tied though. Believe it or not they actually have the same concerns you and I do over most of this. According to their rules they must follow the letter of the rule without bias or emotion. The principals of each school are where the power lies and quite frankly I feel they find it a chore to be in charge of it and are more concerned about academics. They have nothing in their minds to gain fro school athletics. Don't get me wrong, they like them especially when their programs do well just don't bother them too much. Personal experience with that.

In looking at the 2016 state tournament results, the AAA region 2 teams won 21.43% of their matches on Thursday night (opening round).

14 weight classes x 4 qualifiers per region = 56 opportunities.

Region 2 won 12 opening round matches. 12 / 56 = 21.43%.

To expand further, 3 of the 12 wins were from Lewis County (now AA) and BuckUp (now region 1). 12 - 3 = 9.

9 / 56 = 16.07%

Those big schools need to get more out of their cows. Little cream flowing out of the eastern panhandle.

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:
Relax Bear. I actually see things your way to a point. Not 100% but maybe 75%.
I don't agree with the WVSSAC leveling the playing field. It has been one of my biggest gripes about the organization for a long time. I don't like seeing some of the tougher opponents stay home. Likewise I can't see allowing JV in when we have ranked wrestlers staying home either. I don't care what region you are from. And I certainly don't want to see byes at the state tournament. I don't think there is a big enough pool of schools in AAA. I think the classes should be more balanced. I also think the regions should be different for each sport. That would allow for a more competitive atmosphere. There are a lot of things that can be done. I also hate how long it takes to effect change. I like to fix things when they are broken, not leave them broken and hope they fix themselves.

In a match, a wrestler often has seconds to make a decision. At most, a wrestler has 6 minutes to make a decision. Taking two years to make a decision is unacceptable in any organization. High school wrestlers have 4 years. Half of that time is tied up in decision making. Just what do the WVSSAC personnel do each day, throughout the year?

The people who work for the SSAC are good people. Their hands are tied though. Believe it or not they actually have the same concerns you and I do over most of this. According to their rules they must follow the letter of the rule without bias or emotion. The principals of each school are where the power lies and quite frankly I feel they find it a chore to be in charge of it and are more concerned about academics. They have nothing in their minds to gain fro school athletics. Don't get me wrong, they like them especially when their programs do well just don't bother them too much. Personal experience with that.

So the WVSSAC sets the regions, but their hands are tied by all of the principals?

vortexfan wrote:

mike.carman wrote:

vortexfan wrote:
For consistenty in the future years it should be 2 Regionals and top 8 go! Year in Year out it would be the way go! Lots of luck to all the wrestlers!

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm all for simplification. I am only referencing what is going on right now.

Thanks for the reply this is just sad for some talented wrestlers! I agree with your later post too about how long it takes fix things! Also do not like to hear the former or present coaches and wrestlers say it's been this way for years! There's several solid wrestlers that will. It. E at the states due to this regional mess. Good luck to your son he is solid wrestler!

Thanks, he definitely has his work cut out for him.

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:
In a match, a wrestler often has seconds to make a decision. At most, a wrestler has 6 minutes to make a decision. Taking two years to make a decision is unacceptable in any organization. High school wrestlers have 4 years. Half of that time is tied up in decision making. Just what do the WVSSAC personnel do each day, throughout the year?

The people who work for the SSAC are good people. Their hands are tied though. Believe it or not they actually have the same concerns you and I do over most of this. According to their rules they must follow the letter of the rule without bias or emotion. The principals of each school are where the power lies and quite frankly I feel they find it a chore to be in charge of it and are more concerned about academics. They have nothing in their minds to gain fro school athletics. Don't get me wrong, they like them especially when their programs do well just don't bother them too much. Personal experience with that.

So the WVSSAC sets the regions, but their hands are tied by all of the principals?

The principals are the rule makers the people who work at the SSAC are the rule enforcers. They aren't even allowed to interpret rules only enforce them. Call them they will tell you the same thing. At least that is what they told me.

Each middles school and each high school principal has one vote on rule changes. They meet once a year. Rule changes need submitted by January I think. So basically all proposed rule changes for the 2017-2018 year should have already been submitted. We are now looking to submit rule changes for the 2018-2019 season which will not be voted on until next year. That is why I say we are 2 years away from a resolution.

Yes I think it's crazy too.

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:
The people who work for the SSAC are good people. Their hands are tied though. Believe it or not they actually have the same concerns you and I do over most of this. According to their rules they must follow the letter of the rule without bias or emotion. The principals of each school are where the power lies and quite frankly I feel they find it a chore to be in charge of it and are more concerned about academics. They have nothing in their minds to gain fro school athletics. Don't get me wrong, they like them especially when their programs do well just don't bother them too much. Personal experience with that.

So the WVSSAC sets the regions, but their hands are tied by all of the principals?

The principals are the rule makers the people who work at the SSAC are the rule enforcers. They aren't even allowed to interpret rules only enforce them. Call them they will tell you the same thing. At least that is what they told me.

Each middles school and each high school principal has one vote on rule changes. They meet once a year. Rule changes need submitted by January I think. So basically all proposed rule changes for the 2017-2018 year should have already been submitted. We are now looking to submit rule changes for the 2018-2019 season which will not be voted on until next year. That is why I say we are 2 years away from a resolution.

Yes I think it's crazy too.

So if I am a principal of a high school that has less than 6 wrestlers and I am in a weak region, then what incentive do I have to cast a vote for region reform?

I cannot buy the idea that 29 principals looked at a state map and voted on the current regional alignment. I bet half of the principals cannot even name the schools in their region (all 7 of them).

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:
So the WVSSAC sets the regions, but their hands are tied by all of the principals?

The principals are the rule makers the people who work at the SSAC are the rule enforcers. They aren't even allowed to interpret rules only enforce them. Call them they will tell you the same thing. At least that is what they told me.

Each middles school and each high school principal has one vote on rule changes. They meet once a year. Rule changes need submitted by January I think. So basically all proposed rule changes for the 2017-2018 year should have already been submitted. We are now looking to submit rule changes for the 2018-2019 season which will not be voted on until next year. That is why I say we are 2 years away from a resolution.

Yes I think it's crazy too.

So if I am a principal of a high school that has less than 6 wrestlers and I am in a weak region, then what incentive do I have to cast a vote for region reform?

I cannot buy the idea that 29 principals looked at a state map and voted on the current regional alignment. I bet half of the principals cannot even name the schools in their region (all 7 of them).

Buy it or don't buy it. I really don't care what you do. All you have to do is read the rules they are posted on the WVSSAC web site for publicly knowledge. It spells out the whole process of who votes and makes rules and who enforce them. If you don't believe me, pick up a phone and call them yourself. They will tell you the same thing. Instead of doubt everyone, or me. Why don't you make an effort to understand the process yourself. The information is readily available to anyone who puts forth a little effort to understand it.

I'll do you a favor. Here is the link. http://www.wvssac.org/wp-content/upload ... 6-17-2.pdf

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

mike.carman wrote:
Relax Bear. I actually see things your way to a point. Not 100% but maybe 75%.
I don't agree with the WVSSAC leveling the playing field. It has been one of my biggest gripes about the organization for a long time. I don't like seeing some of the tougher opponents stay home. Likewise I can't see allowing JV in when we have ranked wrestlers staying home either. I don't care what region you are from. And I certainly don't want to see byes at the state tournament. I don't think there is a big enough pool of schools in AAA. I think the classes should be more balanced. I also think the regions should be different for each sport. That would allow for a more competitive atmosphere. There are a lot of things that can be done. I also hate how long it takes to effect change. I like to fix things when they are broken, not leave them broken and hope they fix themselves.

In a match, a wrestler often has seconds to make a decision. At most, a wrestler has 6 minutes to make a decision. Taking two years to make a decision is unacceptable in any organization. High school wrestlers have 4 years. Half of that time is tied up in decision making. Just what do the WVSSAC personnel do each day, throughout the year?

The people who work for the SSAC are good people. Their hands are tied though. Believe it or not they actually have the same concerns you and I do over most of this. According to their rules they must follow the letter of the rule without bias or emotion. The principals of each school are where the power lies and quite frankly I feel they find it a chore to be in charge of it and are more concerned about academics. They have nothing in their minds to gain fro school athletics. Don't get me wrong, they like them especially when their programs do well just don't bother them too much. Personal experience with that.

And this is exactly what is wrong with our sport. Too many hands in the cookie jar, too much red tape, too many policies that don't make sense. We have principals in charge of rule changes for sports they don't understand or care about. I am not disrespecting the principals at all, so please don't take it like that. What I am saying is that a principal who is not a sports guy/lady, or who is a specific sports guy/lady (football) doesn't understand how their decisions, or lack there of, impact their students. Many of these kids that are getting a raw deal have sold out their entire lives and high school years to a sport, wrestling, and I think it is only fair to expect their principal/leader to spend a few hours to understand what each specific sport needs to flourish. They owe that to their kids, or at least owe it to their kids to pass the power on to a group of people that DO understand.

aaacoach89 wrote:

mike.carman wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:
In a match, a wrestler often has seconds to make a decision. At most, a wrestler has 6 minutes to make a decision. Taking two years to make a decision is unacceptable in any organization. High school wrestlers have 4 years. Half of that time is tied up in decision making. Just what do the WVSSAC personnel do each day, throughout the year?

The people who work for the SSAC are good people. Their hands are tied though. Believe it or not they actually have the same concerns you and I do over most of this. According to their rules they must follow the letter of the rule without bias or emotion. The principals of each school are where the power lies and quite frankly I feel they find it a chore to be in charge of it and are more concerned about academics. They have nothing in their minds to gain fro school athletics. Don't get me wrong, they like them especially when their programs do well just don't bother them too much. Personal experience with that.

And this is exactly what is wrong with our sport. Too many hands in the cookie jar, too much red tape, too many policies that don't make sense. We have principals in charge of rule changes for sports they don't understand or care about. I am not disrespecting the principals at all, so please don't take it like that. What I am saying is that a principal who is not a sports guy/lady, or who is a specific sports guy/lady (football) doesn't understand how their decisions, or lack there of, impact their students. Many of these kids that are getting a raw deal have sold out their entire lives and high school years to a sport, wrestling, and I think it is only fair to expect their principal/leader to spend a few hours to understand what each specific sport needs to flourish. They owe that to their kids, or at least owe it to their kids to pass the power on to a group of people that DO understand.

Preaching to the choir. I feel the same way. Now the rules do say the principal can assign a designee to take their place. I don't know how often that happens and if it does it is probably the assistant principal who is like minded.

I agree with the poster above. Sure some kids may be getting a tougher road to states in another region...but what incentive does the principal have to try to get the regions more balanced? If I were one of those principals I wouldn't put a lot of effort into trying to make it more difficult for my own schools team to qualify wrestlers for the state tournament. So, 7 teams may want realignment...but 22 others probably are fine with how it is now. Good luck winning that vote.

mike.carman wrote:

aaacoach89 wrote:

mike.carman wrote:
The people who work for the SSAC are good people. Their hands are tied though. Believe it or not they actually have the same concerns you and I do over most of this. According to their rules they must follow the letter of the rule without bias or emotion. The principals of each school are where the power lies and quite frankly I feel they find it a chore to be in charge of it and are more concerned about academics. They have nothing in their minds to gain fro school athletics. Don't get me wrong, they like them especially when their programs do well just don't bother them too much. Personal experience with that.

And this is exactly what is wrong with our sport. Too many hands in the cookie jar, too much red tape, too many policies that don't make sense. We have principals in charge of rule changes for sports they don't understand or care about. I am not disrespecting the principals at all, so please don't take it like that. What I am saying is that a principal who is not a sports guy/lady, or who is a specific sports guy/lady (football) doesn't understand how their decisions, or lack there of, impact their students. Many of these kids that are getting a raw deal have sold out their entire lives and high school years to a sport, wrestling, and I think it is only fair to expect their principal/leader to spend a few hours to understand what each specific sport needs to flourish. They owe that to their kids, or at least owe it to their kids to pass the power on to a group of people that DO understand.

Preaching to the choir. I feel the same way. Now the rules do say the principal can assign a designee to take their place. I don't know how often that happens and if it does it is probably the assistant principal who is like minded.

I volunteer my services as the designee for all 29 AAA schools. 1. I will solicit input from the sports' communities. 2. I can improve what we got. 3. I like everybody else, can handle anything if I only have to make a decision once every two years.