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Geno Casuccio of East Fairmont should at least be ranked in the top 5.

Maybe next week.

Bearhugger wrote:Geno Casuccio of East Fairmont should at least be ranked in the top 5.

Maybe next week.

If JV were put into rankings.

FBISURVALINCEVAN1 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:Geno Casuccio of East Fairmont should at least be ranked in the top 5.

Maybe next week.

If JV were put into rankings.

We have to start recognizing the best wrestlers someday.

Bearhugger wrote:

FBISURVALINCEVAN1 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:Geno Casuccio of East Fairmont should at least be ranked in the top 5.

Maybe next week.

If JV were put into rankings.

We have to start recognizing the best wrestlers someday.

I couldn't agree with you more Bearhugger. It's a shame that some schools have so much depth of talent that doesn't get the opportunity they deserve.

FBISURVALINCEVAN1 wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

FBISURVALINCEVAN1 wrote:
If JV were put into rankings.

We have to start recognizing the best wrestlers someday.

I couldn't agree with you more Bearhugger. It's a shame that some schools have so much depth of talent that doesn't get the opportunity they deserve.

I hope that he gets to wrestle in the WSAZ.

Bearhugger,

How are JV wrestlers different than injured wrestlers who are out for the year? Both may be top 10 (Braxton Amos comes to mind). Yet, neither will wrestle at regional or state. Why rank a JV kid, but not Braxton Amos or other injured wrestlers.

Nicholas County also has 2 106s that are worth of top 10 consideration. Its too bad that JV does not get considered, but I understand why its that way.

guard0544 wrote:Bearhugger,

How are JV wrestlers different than injured wrestlers who are out for the year? Both may be top 10 (Braxton Amos comes to mind). Yet, neither will wrestle at regional or state. Why rank a JV kid, but not Braxton Amos or other injured wrestlers.

You need to be careful about who you say is wrong or call out on here.

MaleMatMaid wrote:

guard0544 wrote:Bearhugger,

How are JV wrestlers different than injured wrestlers who are out for the year? Both may be top 10 (Braxton Amos comes to mind). Yet, neither will wrestle at regional or state. Why rank a JV kid, but not Braxton Amos or other injured wrestlers.

You need to be careful about who you say is wrong or call out on here.

I'm not even sure what you mean.

To answer the question we first need to ask Why do we have a poll and what does it represent?
I think we all agree that the poll in its present form is for entertainment and discussion purposes. It does not affect seeding.
There are three ways that I can see people looking at the poll

If it attempts to represent or predict the state tournament finish then guard is right, JV should not be included because JV cannot wrestle in the state tournament. Be careful before jumping on the Guard bandwagon though because if you accept Guard's view then in fairness there should only be 6 wrestlers ranked and under no circumstances should any region have more than 4 ranked wrestlers. Don't bother listing additional wrestlers because this is a prediction of the state medalists and the others do not matter under this plan.

If it is to identify who are the top wrestlers on wvssac approved teams then you allow jv's on and do not include those who are not wrestling because of choice, injury, grades, discipline. I think this is bearhuggers view. This makes sense when we look at head to head results and see that a JV wrestler has defeated a ranked varsity wrestler but should be clear that it does not reflect predicted spots on the podium because of the current rules. This also gives those wrestlers who may fall slightly outside of the top 6 some recognition during the season.

If it is to identify who are the top wrestlers in grades 9-12 in West Virginia then that's a really fun discussion because I can think of 3 defending state champs who are not wrestling but if they were to be considered for a poll would be highly ranked. Factor in the injuries and some weight classes may have multiple wrestlers in this version of the poll who will not wrestle for a WV high school this season.

ZZChooseTop wrote:To answer the question we first need to ask Why do we have a poll and what does it represent?
I think we all agree that the poll in its present form is for entertainment and discussion purposes. It does not affect seeding.
There are three ways that I can see people looking at the poll

If it attempts to represent or predict the state tournament finish then guard is right, JV should not be included because JV cannot wrestle in the state tournament. Be careful before jumping on the Guard bandwagon though because if you accept Guard's view then in fairness there should only be 6 wrestlers ranked and under no circumstances should any region have more than 4 ranked wrestlers. Don't bother listing additional wrestlers because this is a prediction of the state medalists and the others do not matter under this plan.

If it is to identify who are the top wrestlers on wvssac approved teams then you allow jv's on and do not include those who are not wrestling because of choice, injury, grades, discipline. I think this is bearhuggers view. This makes sense when we look at head to head results and see that a JV wrestler has defeated a ranked varsity wrestler but should be clear that it does not reflect predicted spots on the podium because of the current rules. This also gives those wrestlers who may fall slightly outside of the top 6 some recognition during the season.

If it is to identify who are the top wrestlers in grades 9-12 in West Virginia then that's a really fun discussion because I can think of 3 defending state champs who are not wrestling but if they were to be considered for a poll would be highly ranked. Factor in the injuries and some weight classes may have multiple wrestlers in this version of the poll who will not wrestle for a WV high school this season.

I did not say above what my opinion is in ranking JV wrestlers. So, there is no guard bandwagon. For the sake of discussion, I raised the question of if, how/why JV wrestlers are different than injured wrestlers given neither will be competing in the regional or state tournament, but both may be known, or have already proven this year prior to injury, that they are top 10. Maybe I feel both injured and JV wrestlers should be ranked if they are known, or have shown themselves in matches, to be in the top 10.

Yosemite Sam does a good job with the "All Class Rankings". I would not be surprised to see a few JV kids on the list.

FBI....It's a shame that some schools have so much depth of talent that doesn't get the opportunity they deserve.

I do not think it is a shame. I think the teams with these JV Wrestlers who are defeating ranked opponents deserve credit. Good programs usually have depth and I think that's a great problem. In this it's case East Fairmont.

I agree with JV wrestlers not being ranked. If a wrestler isn't even the best in his weight class on his own team then saying he is one of the 10 best in the state is hard to argue. Yes, there are some solid JV wrestlers that are competitive and in a few cases, outright studs, but I repeat, if they can't even be the #1 on their team then they need to focus on that first before worrying about being ranked in the state.

coach_williams wrote:I agree with JV wrestlers not being ranked. If a wrestler isn't even the best in his weight class on his own team then saying he is one of the 10 best in the state is hard to argue. Yes, there are some solid JV wrestlers that are competitive and in a few cases, outright studs, but I repeat, if they can't even be the #1 on their team then they need to focus on that first before worrying about being ranked in the state.

Coach Williams my friend, you have opened a door that I shall walk right through.

The first rankings are historically the least accurate.

In AA/A 106, Hodges/Grafton is ranked first. I am sure this is because he is the returning runner up. Barber/Oak Hill is 2nd. He is a returning 5th place winner. NEXT, ranked third is FRESHMAN Whorton/EF.

Who is second string behind #3 ranked Whorton???? Casuccio.

Casuccio won the Superior Photo Tournament earlier this season.

Who was in his weight class?

#4 ranked Logston/Oak Glen and #5 ranked Cornell/Point.

In addition, from the AAA rankings, #4 ranked Gray/John Marshall and #5 Stockett/University.

In summary, yes............Casuccio is not good enough to be the best in his own weight class on his own team. He does hold wins over FOUR ranked wrestlers. The season is only one third over.

This one wrestler makes the perfect argument for why a JV wrestler should be allowed to enter the region and wrestle his way into qualification. If he lived in Braxton County or most any other town in the entire state, he would be starting.

If he went to any other school, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals. If he could enter the regional tournament, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals.

If they bring him to the WSAZ's, then he might be facing Whorton in the finals. If they do NOT bring him the the WSAZs, then it is because they ARE afraid he will be facing Whorton in the finals.

Many schools will be bringing JV wrestlers to the WSAZ. I hope East Fairmont does.

guard0544 wrote:Bearhugger,

How are JV wrestlers different than injured wrestlers who are out for the year? Both may be top 10 (Braxton Amos comes to mind). Yet, neither will wrestle at regional or state. Why rank a JV kid, but not Braxton Amos or other injured wrestlers.

How the sport is ruled needs to change. Most teams do not have full rosters and team placement is trival for the majority of the teams competing. A JV wrestler can step on the mat and compete tomorrow. An injured wrestler cannot.

I like the rankings and Sam, indeed works very hard on the rankings. I think the rankings are fun for the kids and it gives them something to shoot for. NCAA ranks all their weight divisions also. Rankings create "hype" for a particular match. In a tournament we use seedlings and for duals we use rankings. For instance, tonight we had the top 3 AA teams in the state doing battle head to head with number 1 and 2 ranked wrestlers meeting heads up To do battle. Many of people follow the rankings weekly and will drive several hours to watch a particular event just to watch to top ranked wrestlers do battle. I love the rankings system personally. Now to my buddy Bearhugger, I'm not sure about the ranking of a JV wrestler just by the fact of the way the rules are about regional and state tournament and that jv wrestler won't get to prove that he deserves that ranking. The rule states one wrestler per team, per weight class. I agree, it really sucks for Cassuccio and many others that would place at the big dance. Bearhugger, I also agree on the rule needs to be changed. I would love to see a jv wrestler get his shot at regions and if he/she qualifies for the state tournament?? Let them wrestle. That rule only hurts the kids and especially the ones that may be surrounded by state champion caliber teammates!

mattman wrote:I like the rankings and Sam, indeed works very hard on the rankings. I think the rankings are fun for the kids and it gives them something to shoot for. NCAA ranks all their weight divisions also. Rankings create "hype" for a particular match. In a tournament we use seedlings and for duals we use rankings. For instance, tonight we had the top 3 AA teams in the state doing battle head to head with number 1 and 2 ranked wrestlers meeting heads up To do battle. Many of people follow the rankings weekly and will drive several hours to watch a particular event just to watch to top ranked wrestlers do battle. I love the rankings system personally. Now to my buddy Bearhugger, I'm not sure about the ranking of a JV wrestler just by the fact of the way the rules are about regional and state tournament and that jv wrestler won't get to prove that he deserves that ranking. The rule states one wrestler per team, per weight class. I agree, it really sucks for Cassuccio and many others that would place at the big dance. Bearhugger, I also agree on the rule needs to be changed. I would love to see a jv wrestler get his shot at regions and if he/she qualifies for the state tournament?? Let them wrestle. That rule only hurts the kids and especially the ones that may be surrounded by state champion caliber teammates!

Usually rules (and sometimes laws) are changed well after much damage is done. When I was in Wheeling, I talked to two different sets of dads from two different schools. One set from the northern panhandle and another set from the central part of the state. I walked away from both conversations with the same message. Ninth graders are coming into high school. They lose wrestle offs. They quit. Some rejoin the sport their Sophomore year (after losing a year of experience). Some do not rejoin the sport. When wrestlers do not wrestle, then we have forfeits. We got a lot of them now. I am creating awareness of the problem. Growing forfeits is a problem. Great wrestlers on the bench is a problem. No JV action is a problem. Keeping everything the way it has always been.........................is adding to the problem.

When we watched #1 Independence wrestle #2 East Fairmont tonight, keep in mind that only 11 matches were wrestled. Not 14. These were the two best in AA.

Independence doesn't have a 106. East Fairmont has two good ones. EF didn't have a 195. Independence has two. One is a 3 time state champ and the other is a good wrestler. Throw only these two teams' varsity in a tournament and we will have byes at 106 and 195. Throw in the varsity and some JV, we are filling up the brackets.

While I agree that there are talented JV wrestlers, I also want to point out that in many cases it is not "even though" there is a better wrestler on their team but sometimes "because" there is a better or many better wrestlers on their team.
Small teams who are not able to fill weight classes have challenges to have enough fair competition at practices to expand their wrestlers skills and keep them sharp. Having another wrestler in your weight class regardless of anything else gives you a daily partner and forces you to challenge yourself. If you were the only one in your weight class and guaranteed Varsity, you may not put in the same work effort or heart because you already own the spot. It's not a challenge to get it and there is no threat to take it.
The kids on the small teams often practice with others who are either much lighter or heavier than them or of significantly disparate skill levels. This creates situations where knowing the mechanics of a move or how someone of the correct weight is going to "feel" during the move does not occur until in an actual match. These wrestlers must look outside of their team for the challenges and experience to continue to develop or learn on the mat when it counts, not in the privacy of a practice session.

Just .02 more on this hotly debated and interesting topic. The wrestler who was the topic of the post wrestled at 106 - the smallest weight class. Imagine, if you will, a similar talented wrestler in a class other than 106. Said wrestler can perhaps safely move up or down a weight class to crack the starting lineup. The poor 106 can only move up because there is no down, no lower class to move to. In addition, some 106'ers are too small to make the minimum weight for the next class up. In this situation , the 106 is stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. From my coaching days, I had one year where I was blessed with not two but three outstanding 78 pounders which is the lowest class in middle school - one moved up (Jordan Allen (3X AAA state champ), one stayed at 78 (Logan Grass (3X AAA state champ, Dutton winner) and the third kid (Bobby Mitchell) was stuck at JV 78 - could not move down with nowhere to go and did not weigh enough to move up two classes but went 47-5 on the year with 3 of those losses coming to his team mates when we were able to enter two full teams at events and they met in the finals, another loss was to an out of state wrestler from northern Ohio who is now a ranked college wrestler. We had no regions or middle school state tournament then so rankings really meant little but he defeated every ranked wrestler ( other than team mates)he faced in 78 and all but one in the next class up. If there had been individual rankings should he have been included? In my eyes, absolutely. I think and other coaches agreed that he was one of the top three 78's in the state but stuck at JV. Just an illustration to show that it can happen sometimes. I am not sure what has happened to the participation rates since I retired but it certainly seems fewer kids are wrestling. From a middle school with 600 kids or so we always had two full teams and a few extra kids beyond that. Usually around 36 total. So one out of every 20 kids ( or one out of every 10 boys most years) in our school wrestled. I remember Point Middle had 4-5 kids per weight class some years! As a sport we have to do something to get our numbers back up and fill teams. Forfeits are not exciting!

I would like to applaud young Casuccio and his family. Many times today we see kids and their parents take the easy route and simply transfer to another school. This happens in other sports, not just wrestling. The East Fairmont Wrestling Staff/Family does a great job needless to say.

Bear,
I appreciate your efforts to create awareness on the problems we are facing in WV Wrestling, Truly. However this will not change until wrestling people start talking to the folks that put us in this position, WVSSAC. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

The coaches must decide to make these changes at the state tournament on the Friday morning before quarterfinals. Then the changes are proposed to the WVSSAC. This still does not guarantee the change we seek.

In the nineties we had two quality freshman wrestlers at 103 that eventually went on to win a combined 4 state titles.(easily could have been six state titles....long story) Every week the wrestle off was one point with each wrestler winning equally. We didn't even know who the starter would be at the state tournament until the week of regionals. My opinion...if they beat ranked wrestlers, rank them. Give them a little more motivation to stick it out.

Bearhugger wrote:Coach Williams my friend, you have opened a door that I shall walk right through.

The first rankings are historically the least accurate.

In AA/A 106, Hodges/Grafton is ranked first. I am sure this is because he is the returning runner up. Barber/Oak Hill is 2nd. He is a returning 5th place winner. NEXT, ranked third is FRESHMAN Whorton/EF.

Who is second string behind #3 ranked Whorton???? Casuccio.

Casuccio won the Superior Photo Tournament earlier this season.

Who was in his weight class?

#4 ranked Logston/Oak Glen and #5 ranked Cornell/Point.

In addition, from the AAA rankings, #4 ranked Gray/John Marshall and #5 Stockett/University.

In summary, yes............Casuccio is not good enough to be the best in his own weight class on his own team. He does hold wins over FOUR ranked wrestlers. The season is only one third over.

This one wrestler makes the perfect argument for why a JV wrestler should be allowed to enter the region and wrestle his way into qualification. If he lived in Braxton County or most any other town in the entire state, he would be starting.

If he went to any other school, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals. If he could enter the regional tournament, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals.

If they bring him to the WSAZ's, then he might be facing Whorton in the finals. If they do NOT bring him the the WSAZs, then it is because they ARE afraid he will be facing Whorton in the finals.

Many schools will be bringing JV wrestlers to the WSAZ. I hope East Fairmont does.

Technically he doesn't hold actual wins over Gray and Stockett since they were in the other bracket, but I understand what you are getting at.

I know there are exceptions to the norm, but rarely do we see a legitimate contender stuck in a JV spot. That is why I don't see this as that big of an issue. It happens occasionally, but not so often that it has become a blatant issue in the sport.

Furthermore, if things are changed and JV wrestlers are ranked and eligible for states, then what is their motivation to be the best on their team? What is the goal to work for? I have worked with kids both as a coach and a teacher for the last decade and I can assure you that a large majority of them will be content to sit in a JV spot if they get everything that the varsity wrestler gets. It diminishes being varsity when there is no benefit other than the title "varsity" attached to being varsity.

I want to add that I practice what I preach. My oldest son didn't start wrestling until 9th grade. He was JV behind a senior, but was able to beat out the other kid in about 40-50% of their wrestle-offs and got to start at 4 or 5 tournaments before being regulated to JV for regionals and states. At one point he brought up switching weight classes. I opposed that because I felt that he needed to learn to work harder for what he wanted. That summer between 9th and 10th grade we hit the gym 3x a week and focused on strength and conditioning. As a 10th grader he took varsity and held off 3 other challengers until they gave up and moved to other weight classes. He ended up being varsity for his 10th-12th grade years and qualified for states all three years and placed 5th his senior year. So when I say that I believe a JV wrestler should work harder to become varsity, I mean it. A wrestler will get so much more out of the sport when he succeeds by working hard than he will from getting an easier path like getting to be ranked and go to states as a JV wrestler.

EF's is obviously the real deal, as last night showed. Their lineup from 106-126 (and more) all return. Where does the kid fit in next year? Well, he may just make a spot, beating out a teamate that is a state placer, idk, It is a wondeful problem for EF, except it might just cost them a wrestler. ( and EF has done nothing wrong that I know of, it is the situation) I mean the room has intense competiton and that makes everyone better, but at who's expense? In the end a quality wrestler misses out on 1 or 2 years of the state tournament.
Imagine if Geno and Henson both ended up at University before the year ended. That would shake things ups!!!
And honestly, who could blame a kid for going somewhere else when he is obviously in the top 6, probably higher. Again, how close are the geno/whorton wrestle offs? That is what a lot of us are wandering. That would probalby help in ranking both wreslters. And by the way, congrats to whorton, he is really good and having a fantastic year!!

NhsMom wrote:While I agree that there are talented JV wrestlers, I also want to point out that in many cases it is not "even though" there is a better wrestler on their team but sometimes "because" there is a better or many better wrestlers on their team.
Small teams who are not able to fill weight classes have challenges to have enough fair competition at practices to expand their wrestlers skills and keep them sharp. Having another wrestler in your weight class regardless of anything else gives you a daily partner and forces you to challenge yourself. If you were the only one in your weight class and guaranteed Varsity, you may not put in the same work effort or heart because you already own the spot. It's not a challenge to get it and there is no threat to take it.
The kids on the small teams often practice with others who are either much lighter or heavier than them or of significantly disparate skill levels. This creates situations where knowing the mechanics of a move or how someone of the correct weight is going to "feel" during the move does not occur until in an actual match. These wrestlers must look outside of their team for the challenges and experience to continue to develop or learn on the mat when it counts, not in the privacy of a practice session.

I am sure that 95% of all WV high school wrestlers do NOT have a tough wrestle off in order to make varsity. In addition, there are wrestlers who go wrestle outside of their practice room in order to get better sparring.

Panther_coach wrote:Just .02 more on this hotly debated and interesting topic. The wrestler who was the topic of the post wrestled at 106 - the smallest weight class. Imagine, if you will, a similar talented wrestler in a class other than 106. Said wrestler can perhaps safely move up or down a weight class to crack the starting lineup. The poor 106 can only move up because there is no down, no lower class to move to. In addition, some 106'ers are too small to make the minimum weight for the next class up. In this situation , the 106 is stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. From my coaching days, I had one year where I was blessed with not two but three outstanding 78 pounders which is the lowest class in middle school - one moved up (Jordan Allen (3X AAA state champ), one stayed at 78 (Logan Grass (3X AAA state champ, Dutton winner) and the third kid (Bobby Mitchell) was stuck at JV 78 - could not move down with nowhere to go and did not weigh enough to move up two classes but went 47-5 on the year with 3 of those losses coming to his team mates when we were able to enter two full teams at events and they met in the finals, another loss was to an out of state wrestler from northern Ohio who is now a ranked college wrestler. We had no regions or middle school state tournament then so rankings really meant little but he defeated every ranked wrestler ( other than team mates)he faced in 78 and all but one in the next class up. If there had been individual rankings should he have been included? In my eyes, absolutely. I think and other coaches agreed that he was one of the top three 78's in the state but stuck at JV. Just an illustration to show that it can happen sometimes. I am not sure what has happened to the participation rates since I retired but it certainly seems fewer kids are wrestling. From a middle school with 600 kids or so we always had two full teams and a few extra kids beyond that. Usually around 36 total. So one out of every 20 kids ( or one out of every 10 boys most years) in our school wrestled. I remember Point Middle had 4-5 kids per weight class some years! As a sport we have to do something to get our numbers back up and fill teams. Forfeits are not exciting!

Bobby Mitchell of Cabell Midland? I recall the name. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't he STAY with the sport and wrestle as a senior? Wasn't he 5th in the state at 152?

coach_williams wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:Coach Williams my friend, you have opened a door that I shall walk right through.

The first rankings are historically the least accurate.

In AA/A 106, Hodges/Grafton is ranked first. I am sure this is because he is the returning runner up. Barber/Oak Hill is 2nd. He is a returning 5th place winner. NEXT, ranked third is FRESHMAN Whorton/EF.

Who is second string behind #3 ranked Whorton???? Casuccio.

Casuccio won the Superior Photo Tournament earlier this season.

Who was in his weight class?

#4 ranked Logston/Oak Glen and #5 ranked Cornell/Point.

In addition, from the AAA rankings, #4 ranked Gray/John Marshall and #5 Stockett/University.

In summary, yes............Casuccio is not good enough to be the best in his own weight class on his own team. He does hold wins over FOUR ranked wrestlers. The season is only one third over.

This one wrestler makes the perfect argument for why a JV wrestler should be allowed to enter the region and wrestle his way into qualification. If he lived in Braxton County or most any other town in the entire state, he would be starting.

If he went to any other school, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals. If he could enter the regional tournament, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals.

If they bring him to the WSAZ's, then he might be facing Whorton in the finals. If they do NOT bring him the the WSAZs, then it is because they ARE afraid he will be facing Whorton in the finals.

Many schools will be bringing JV wrestlers to the WSAZ. I hope East Fairmont does.

Technically he doesn't hold actual wins over Gray and Stockett since they were in the other bracket, but I understand what you are getting at.

I know there are exceptions to the norm, but rarely do we see a legitimate contender stuck in a JV spot. That is why I don't see this as that big of an issue. It happens occasionally, but not so often that it has become a blatant issue in the sport.

Furthermore, if things are changed and JV wrestlers are ranked and eligible for states, then what is their motivation to be the best on their team? What is the goal to work for? I have worked with kids both as a coach and a teacher for the last decade and I can assure you that a large majority of them will be content to sit in a JV spot if they get everything that the varsity wrestler gets. It diminishes being varsity when there is no benefit other than the title "varsity" attached to being varsity.

I want to add that I practice what I preach. My oldest son didn't start wrestling until 9th grade. He was JV behind a senior, but was able to beat out the other kid in about 40-50% of their wrestle-offs and got to start at 4 or 5 tournaments before being regulated to JV for regionals and states. At one point he brought up switching weight classes. I opposed that because I felt that he needed to learn to work harder for what he wanted. That summer between 9th and 10th grade we hit the gym 3x a week and focused on strength and conditioning. As a 10th grader he took varsity and held off 3 other challengers until they gave up and moved to other weight classes. He ended up being varsity for his 10th-12th grade years and qualified for states all three years and placed 5th his senior year. So when I say that I believe a JV wrestler should work harder to become varsity, I mean it. A wrestler will get so much more out of the sport when he succeeds by working hard than he will from getting an easier path like getting to be ranked and go to states as a JV wrestler.

If you think Cassucio is not "legitimate" then you need to ask around. He did tech fall Gray a few weeks after the Superior. Stockett, and probably 98+% of all 106's, wouldn't fare much better.

Hard Head wrote:
If you think Cassucio is not "legitimate" then you need to ask around. He did tech fall Gray a few weeks after the Superior. Stockett, and probably 98+% of all 106's, wouldn't fare much better.

That is not what I said.

coach_williams wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:Coach Williams my friend, you have opened a door that I shall walk right through.

The first rankings are historically the least accurate.

In AA/A 106, Hodges/Grafton is ranked first. I am sure this is because he is the returning runner up. Barber/Oak Hill is 2nd. He is a returning 5th place winner. NEXT, ranked third is FRESHMAN Whorton/EF.

Who is second string behind #3 ranked Whorton???? Casuccio.

Casuccio won the Superior Photo Tournament earlier this season.

Who was in his weight class?

#4 ranked Logston/Oak Glen and #5 ranked Cornell/Point.

In addition, from the AAA rankings, #4 ranked Gray/John Marshall and #5 Stockett/University.

In summary, yes............Casuccio is not good enough to be the best in his own weight class on his own team. He does hold wins over FOUR ranked wrestlers. The season is only one third over.

This one wrestler makes the perfect argument for why a JV wrestler should be allowed to enter the region and wrestle his way into qualification. If he lived in Braxton County or most any other town in the entire state, he would be starting.

If he went to any other school, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals. If he could enter the regional tournament, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals.

If they bring him to the WSAZ's, then he might be facing Whorton in the finals. If they do NOT bring him the the WSAZs, then it is because they ARE afraid he will be facing Whorton in the finals.

Many schools will be bringing JV wrestlers to the WSAZ. I hope East Fairmont does.

Technically he doesn't hold actual wins over Gray and Stockett since they were in the other bracket, but I understand what you are getting at.

I know there are exceptions to the norm, but rarely do we see a legitimate contender stuck in a JV spot. That is why I don't see this as that big of an issue. It happens occasionally, but not so often that it has become a blatant issue in the sport.

Furthermore, if things are changed and JV wrestlers are ranked and eligible for states, then what is their motivation to be the best on their team? What is the goal to work for? I have worked with kids both as a coach and a teacher for the last decade and I can assure you that a large majority of them will be content to sit in a JV spot if they get everything that the varsity wrestler gets. It diminishes being varsity when there is no benefit other than the title "varsity" attached to being varsity.

I want to add that I practice what I preach. My oldest son didn't start wrestling until 9th grade. He was JV behind a senior, but was able to beat out the other kid in about 40-50% of their wrestle-offs and got to start at 4 or 5 tournaments before being regulated to JV for regionals and states. At one point he brought up switching weight classes. I opposed that because I felt that he needed to learn to work harder for what he wanted. That summer between 9th and 10th grade we hit the gym 3x a week and focused on strength and conditioning. As a 10th grader he took varsity and held off 3 other challengers until they gave up and moved to other weight classes. He ended up being varsity for his 10th-12th grade years and qualified for states all three years and placed 5th his senior year. So when I say that I believe a JV wrestler should work harder to become varsity, I mean it. A wrestler will get so much more out of the sport when he succeeds by working hard than he will from getting an easier path like getting to be ranked and go to states as a JV wrestler.

Most kids are not motivated to do much of anything these days. Everybody needs to grasp this reality first. When a JV wrestler is stuck behind a state champion, he needs motivation to stay with the sport. I really doubt he is going to work real hard, put in extra time and then beat out his state champion.

Any JV wrestler that "goes to the states" does so by beating out the best his given region has to offer. Keyword REGION. That is the SAME path as any other qualifier has to take. Any wrestler who places in the top four at their region, has earned their spot at the state tournament.

Hard Head wrote:

coach_williams wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:Coach Williams my friend, you have opened a door that I shall walk right through.

The first rankings are historically the least accurate.

In AA/A 106, Hodges/Grafton is ranked first. I am sure this is because he is the returning runner up. Barber/Oak Hill is 2nd. He is a returning 5th place winner. NEXT, ranked third is FRESHMAN Whorton/EF.

Who is second string behind #3 ranked Whorton???? Casuccio.

Casuccio won the Superior Photo Tournament earlier this season.

Who was in his weight class?

#4 ranked Logston/Oak Glen and #5 ranked Cornell/Point.

In addition, from the AAA rankings, #4 ranked Gray/John Marshall and #5 Stockett/University.

In summary, yes............Casuccio is not good enough to be the best in his own weight class on his own team. He does hold wins over FOUR ranked wrestlers. The season is only one third over.

This one wrestler makes the perfect argument for why a JV wrestler should be allowed to enter the region and wrestle his way into qualification. If he lived in Braxton County or most any other town in the entire state, he would be starting.

If he went to any other school, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals. If he could enter the regional tournament, he might be facing Whorton in the state finals.

If they bring him to the WSAZ's, then he might be facing Whorton in the finals. If they do NOT bring him the the WSAZs, then it is because they ARE afraid he will be facing Whorton in the finals.

Many schools will be bringing JV wrestlers to the WSAZ. I hope East Fairmont does.

Technically he doesn't hold actual wins over Gray and Stockett since they were in the other bracket, but I understand what you are getting at.

I know there are exceptions to the norm, but rarely do we see a legitimate contender stuck in a JV spot. That is why I don't see this as that big of an issue. It happens occasionally, but not so often that it has become a blatant issue in the sport.

Furthermore, if things are changed and JV wrestlers are ranked and eligible for states, then what is their motivation to be the best on their team? What is the goal to work for? I have worked with kids both as a coach and a teacher for the last decade and I can assure you that a large majority of them will be content to sit in a JV spot if they get everything that the varsity wrestler gets. It diminishes being varsity when there is no benefit other than the title "varsity" attached to being varsity.

I want to add that I practice what I preach. My oldest son didn't start wrestling until 9th grade. He was JV behind a senior, but was able to beat out the other kid in about 40-50% of their wrestle-offs and got to start at 4 or 5 tournaments before being regulated to JV for regionals and states. At one point he brought up switching weight classes. I opposed that because I felt that he needed to learn to work harder for what he wanted. That summer between 9th and 10th grade we hit the gym 3x a week and focused on strength and conditioning. As a 10th grader he took varsity and held off 3 other challengers until they gave up and moved to other weight classes. He ended up being varsity for his 10th-12th grade years and qualified for states all three years and placed 5th his senior year. So when I say that I believe a JV wrestler should work harder to become varsity, I mean it. A wrestler will get so much more out of the sport when he succeeds by working hard than he will from getting an easier path like getting to be ranked and go to states as a JV wrestler.

If you think Cassucio is not "legitimate" then you need to ask around. He did tech fall Gray a few weeks after the Superior. Stockett, and probably 98+% of all 106's, wouldn't fare much better.

I hope Cassucio is brought down to the National Guard Duals in Beckley. I hope EF puts him in and then moves Murderer's Row Up in weight. I hope they meet up with Braxton County. I am sure we will have more believer's after that.

mscoach27 wrote:In the nineties we had two quality freshman wrestlers at 103 that eventually went on to win a combined 4 state titles.(easily could have been six state titles....long story) Every week the wrestle off was one point with each wrestler winning equally. We didn't even know who the starter would be at the state tournament until the week of regionals. My opinion...if they beat ranked wrestlers, rank them. Give them a little more motivation to stick it out.

You have said it all. The focus needs to be to give kids more motivation to stick it out. In other words, stay with the sport!!!!!!!!!!