Mud slinging, objectivity, and understanding

[Bunk]

These are topics I think it's important to address in the wake of the wild weekend at Big Sandy Arena. Never in all of my year have I seen so many adults act so juvenile for one reason or another; in the same breath, I saw some calls on the mat that any wrestling fan- no matter where you're from should be upset about, if you believe in integrity in the sport. Misscoring a takedown that really wasn't two happens, not awarding a takedown that was probably two happens- but when it comes to a situation where a phantom point appears out of nowhere- and an official denies a coaches protest- and failed to correct the score when the time was appropriate makes my stomach turn. Now we're confronted with a situation where two very deserving wrestlers think they should've won a state title- and an overtime period that was not merited- because wrestler A had 5 points and wrestler B had 6 points. There is evidence showing this is the case. It can not be disputed. Wrestler B was forced to wrestle an overtime period which wrestler A then won. Wrestler A still won the 6 minute match- this outcome never should have been made possible and it''s a glaring error of officiating. There will always be an asterisk next to that bout for anyone that knows the real score, but both guys gave us a great match- it's a shame that this debacle had to come about. It's an even more complicated situation, now that awards have been given and the events that have transpired are over. Nonetheless, I'm sure neither of the wrestlers in that situation got to enjoy their moment like they should have thanks to the drama and violence that followed the bout, which is just sad. Out of respect for the wrestlers- it's our job to make these moments the best we can for the wrestlers- it's what they've worked for for years- they've poured everything they've got into it- and the actions of fans can be a real slap in the face to their work ethic when we get out of hand.

The call in the match was bad. Very bad. But what was worse was the contingent of adults shouting at each other, bickering, and deciding that the right message to send to their kids in a situation like that is- when you disagree with someone (that you probably don't know)- it's a good idea to catch an assault charge.
I, for one- do not condone assault- I think most people that weren't participating in the Jerry Springer Show Saturday night would be in this same boat.

Another thing I'd like to address is the phenomenon here where presumably grown adults are making an indictment about a wrestler's character based on displays that occur after devastating and/or controversial losses. To those trying to belittle wrestlers for reacting emotionally, I urge you to put yourself inside the head of a hormone-filled 14-18 year old who just had their dreams crushed- it's not unbelievable that sometimes tantrums happen. I've had my fair share of tantrums when I wrestled- most people didn't know it, because I found somewhere to run off to before violently thrashing, headbutting, punching walls and other objects that it would not be smart to punch/headbutt. When you're young and filled with passion, a visceral reaction like that will happen from time to time- after you have time to settle down and process it, the whole event can be a chance to grow and learn about yourself- so let's not indict the character of these young men. It's not our place to judge them, and moreover- it's been years since anyone on this forum has felt the emotions and pressure of an intense state tournament campaign. Lets not pretend that we're so virtuous from the stands- we've all thrown a tantrum over a match at one point or another- if you didn't you either didn't care that much, or had the peaceful disposition of Mahatma Ghandi- for which I salute you, but I don't think every testosterone-filled, hyper-emotional developing teenager is going to have that. Let the kids be upset, let them process their emotions. Things happen- the last thing these kids need is more pressure than they already put on themselves.

The same principle goes for the over the top celebrations- can they be a bit much for some? Sure- but is it your job to judge the kid based on what silly thing they wanted to do to celebrate what is probably one of their most prized accomplishments to that point in their life? Absolutely not. Let the kids be the kids, and stop trying to superimpose your idea of what a good winner or loser looks like- that's part of the beauty of this sport, we don't have to scold them on these matters- the embarrassing nature of these behaviors is usually self-evident and if a wrestler gets out of touch, being humbled is inevitable. A WV mat post isn't going to change the behavior that you claim to loathe- but the life experience gained in that moment will. Let it die, and let the kids learn on their own. They don't need the added drama of WV Mat Mudslingers to bring about the personal changes you guys keep droning on about.

This post is not an invitation for bickering. I'm calling upon the rational adults of WV Wrestling to lead by example, and start treating each other with respect- to stop with all of the undercutting remarks about "Team X" or "Wrestler Y". This forum should be for rational discussion, relevant information and discussion about wrestling in WV that doesn't involve trash talk, rumors and misinformation- only results, discussion and opinions (preferably supported by evidence).

I hope that this post hasn't struck a chord with anyone that feels compelled to reply with an incendiary remark- and if it has, please keep it to yourself. I'm leaving names, teams, etc. Out of this- it's a very general post about how we as adults ought to conduct ourselves so the wrestlers can have a good example. If anyone has disagrees, that's fine- but I don't want to entertain the bickering I've seen on other posts here, let's all keep it rational, objective and civil. No sideways, passive aggressive and undercutting remarks. The kids deserve a better example than that.

[Man2man]

I spoke with the phenom last night afterwards and he was asking people who would be the person who he needs to apologize too. Even the best of kids are human and don’t deserve anymore scrutiny than adults, coaches or refs. They if any are under more pressure and are not fully equipped to handle it due to not being fully mentally developed. They’re are kids in men’s bodies. Accountability still has to be served even though. It’s just something that adults don’t seem to not be aware of most of the time. I seen the 145 championship. I witnessed the score with others in the stands right before coach Hart addressed it. The refs unwillingness to make things right was the first mistake. If you watch in OT the kid was on Hart’s leg longer than 5 seconds which is what Hart was called for in regulation as well as a bs stall call with 2 seconds left in the match!

[Bunk]

Sure- I've known the guy for years. He's got an excellent heart. We all fly off the handle sometimes, but I also think sometimes we as adults and spectators feel the need to be judge, jury, and executioner when it simply isn't our place. I''m glad to hear that the aforementioned phenom was taking steps to make things right- I'm not surprised- he's got a good moral compass. I think most of these kids, as well as parents and fans do. The outrage was understandable- but the way it manifested in the moment wasn't particularly honorable- on every side of the issue. I only wish I'd have had the foresight to start a "fix the score" chant to bring the officials attention to the matter- and let them know the fans were aware of the error. Other than that, I don't know what can be done to change the outcome besides sanctions on the ref and rules interpreter responsible- we've got to let this match be a precedent for what we expect from officials and rules interpreters, much in the same way the NCAA did with the controversial Stieber- Oliver match in the 2012 NCAA Finals.

So accountability is important in this situation- but we have to be able to intelligently identify who should be accountable, and to whom, and what being held accountable would entail. I think that the officials and state rules interpreter involved should be held accountable- but I don't think it is clear who they answer to, and how the individuals affected by this situation can move forward so that their voices are heard and those responsible are held accountable for allowing things to get so out of control. It shouldn't be anything personal, but the people responsible for these errors need replaced and standards of expectation, with clear consequences for mistakes of this magnitude may need to be implemented to keep integrity in the system.

[mattman]

The sad part is honestly the adults that keep stirring the pot. Walk slow, drink plenty of cold water and you will stay cool. Emotions run high and thats that. Its Monday and some are licking their wounds so let it be. Tired of reading post from the haters and the emotionally distressed. Let it die and see what happens next year! Best of luck to all wrestlers next season!

[Bunk]

Well put! I wish this forum had a thumbs up button!

[Gator]

will.jpg (22.19 KiB) Viewed 2810 times