AAA Region 4 Brackets compared to AAA Region 2 Brackets

[Bearhugger]

I agree with the poster above. Sure some kids may be getting a tougher road to states in another region...but what incentive does the principal have to try to get the regions more balanced? If I were one of those principals I wouldn't put a lot of effort into trying to make it more difficult for my own schools team to qualify wrestlers for the state tournament. So, 7 teams may want realignment...but 22 others probably are fine with how it is now. Good luck winning that vote.

I now know what Trump really meant when he was talking about a "rigged system" for the past year.

[mike.carman]

And this is exactly what is wrong with our sport. Too many hands in the cookie jar, too much red tape, too many policies that don't make sense. We have principals in charge of rule changes for sports they don't understand or care about. I am not disrespecting the principals at all, so please don't take it like that. What I am saying is that a principal who is not a sports guy/lady, or who is a specific sports guy/lady (football) doesn't understand how their decisions, or lack there of, impact their students. Many of these kids that are getting a raw deal have sold out their entire lives and high school years to a sport, wrestling, and I think it is only fair to expect their principal/leader to spend a few hours to understand what each specific sport needs to flourish. They owe that to their kids, or at least owe it to their kids to pass the power on to a group of people that DO understand.

Preaching to the choir. I feel the same way. Now the rules do say the principal can assign a designee to take their place. I don't know how often that happens and if it does it is probably the assistant principal who is like minded.

I volunteer my services as the designee for all 29 AAA schools. 1. I will solicit input from the sports' communities. 2. I can improve what we got. 3. I like everybody else, can handle anything if I only have to make a decision once every two years.

If you were the designee for all 29 schools, you would be a committee of one. Go for it.

[Bearhugger]

Preaching to the choir. I feel the same way. Now the rules do say the principal can assign a designee to take their place. I don't know how often that happens and if it does it is probably the assistant principal who is like minded.

I volunteer my services as the designee for all 29 AAA schools. 1. I will solicit input from the sports' communities. 2. I can improve what we got. 3. I like everybody else, can handle anything if I only have to make a decision once every two years.

If you were the designee for all 29 schools, you would be a committee of one. Go for it.

There is an old saying "two heads are better than one". There is another old saying "too many cooks in the kitchen, spoil the soup". Both old sayings are in conflict with each other. I will add that I cannot see how anything can be discussed, understood and solved when using "29 cooks" that are scattered all over the state.

[mike.carman]

I volunteer my services as the designee for all 29 AAA schools. 1. I will solicit input from the sports' communities. 2. I can improve what we got. 3. I like everybody else, can handle anything if I only have to make a decision once every two years.

If you were the designee for all 29 schools, you would be a committee of one. Go for it.

There is an old saying "two heads are better than one". There is another old saying "too many cooks in the kitchen, spoil the soup". Both old sayings are in conflict with each other. I will add that I cannot see how anything can be discussed, understood and solved when using "29 cooks" that are scattered all over the state.

Keep in mind that it's not just the 29 AAA principals, it's all the other ones too. Plus add in the middle school principals as well. You think you can't get anything done with 29 cooks, try over 100. I think they also need to have 50 just to have a quorum. So without 50 they can't even make a change.

[mike.carman]

I just went through region 3's brackets and counted the wrestlers. There are only 72 kids entered and 4 weight classes with only 4 kids in the weight classes.
Breakdown of regionals:
Region 1 83 wrestlers
Region 2 81 wrestlers
Region 3 72 wrestlers
Region 4 88 wrestlers

[vortexfan]

If we had two regionals it would be something like
164 wrestlers in one region and 160 in the other.
Good stats you provided. Probably not many byes either, some schools would qualify more of their team too for team scoring at the states and the better chance of getting the top 16 wrestlers at the states for each weight class.

[figure4match]

Scratching my head... Doesn't every state have the problem of strong regions and weak regions when it comes to HS sports? It's hard to find parity when it comes to wrestling. Unfortunately some kids might stay home from a strong region because of the demographic for a given sport.
Kids and families dedication to school sports etc. has changed. Wrestling is tough for anyone who has participated in the sport or had a child on the mat. Our society is changing from 20-30 years ago. Children have so many other avenues to wonder off in and if it's a coddled environment, people would much rather quit or not take part in (that's life not just wrestling).
I still don't understand how a High School of 1400+ cannot fill out a whole team and have some JV. I came form a HS with an enrollment of 500 and we had a full wrestling team and JV and multiple other sports. Again maybe just a different time.
I believe that some forward thinking needs to be done and advocated. I'm not employed by a school system but I do read the paper about the problems that faces our state (unemployment, funding for infrastructure and schools) that may weigh on the yearly school administration meetings and would supersede the conversations of multiple sports not just wrestling.
Squeaky Wheel get the grease. Parents and community leaders must come out and advocate to the HS principles, AD, coaches and school board members for change to happen across this state.
This is a big problem for this sport. If we want to keep it. WE need to look down the road for a 5 - 10 year plan.

[Bearhugger]

I just went through region 3's brackets and counted the wrestlers. There are only 72 kids entered and 4 weight classes with only 4 kids in the weight classes.
Breakdown of regionals:
Region 1 83 wrestlers
Region 2 81 wrestlers
Region 3 72 wrestlers
Region 4 88 wrestlers

Lets not forget that AAA region 3 has 8 schools while the other three regions only have 7 each.

[Bearhugger]

Scratching my head... Doesn't every state have the problem of strong regions and weak regions when it comes to HS sports? It's hard to find parity when it comes to wrestling. Unfortunately some kids might stay home from a strong region because of the demographic for a given sport.
Kids and families dedication to school sports etc. has changed. Wrestling is tough for anyone who has participated in the sport or had a child on the mat. Our society is changing from 20-30 years ago. Children have so many other avenues to wonder off in and if it's a coddled environment, people would much rather quit or not take part in (that's life not just wrestling).
I still don't understand how a High School of 1400+ cannot fill out a whole team and have some JV. I came form a HS with an enrollment of 500 and we had a full wrestling team and JV and multiple other sports. Again maybe just a different time.
I believe that some forward thinking needs to be done and advocated. I'm not employed by a school system but I do read the paper about the problems that faces our state (unemployment, funding for infrastructure and schools) that may weigh on the yearly school administration meetings and would supersede the conversations of multiple sports not just wrestling.
Squeaky Wheel get the grease. Parents and community leaders must come out and advocate to the HS principles, AD, coaches and school board members for change to happen across this state.
This is a big problem for this sport. If we want to keep it. WE need to look down the road for a 5 - 10 year plan.

You are a wise person. Look back over the PAST 5 to 10 years. Just last season, most AAA regions had 10 to 11 teams. Action is needed now.

[mike.carman]

I just went through region 3's brackets and counted the wrestlers. There are only 72 kids entered and 4 weight classes with only 4 kids in the weight classes.
Breakdown of regionals:
Region 1 83 wrestlers
Region 2 81 wrestlers
Region 3 72 wrestlers
Region 4 88 wrestlers

Lets not forget that AAA region 3 has 8 schools while the other three regions only have 7 each.

Looking at it from a different perspective. Hypothetically, if you have 29 teams all of which have full rosters, you get a total of 406 wrestlers in AAA. 16 from each weight class go to states. That's 224. That means 55.2% of all the wrestlers in the state get to go. On the flip side, there are 67 teams in A/AA for a total 938 wrestlers. Again 16 from each weight class go for a total of 224. That means only 23.9% of them attend states.

Honestly, I don't see the logic in that.

No matter what division you are in, there is no reason for over 50% of the competition to advance to the state tournament. Just my opinion.

[Bearhugger]

I just went through region 3's brackets and counted the wrestlers. There are only 72 kids entered and 4 weight classes with only 4 kids in the weight classes.
Breakdown of regionals:
Region 1 83 wrestlers
Region 2 81 wrestlers
Region 3 72 wrestlers
Region 4 88 wrestlers

Lets not forget that AAA region 3 has 8 schools while the other three regions only have 7 each.

Looking at it from a different perspective. Hypothetically, if you have 29 teams all of which have full rosters, you get a total of 406 wrestlers in AAA. 16 from each weight class go to states. That's 224. That means 55.2% of all the wrestlers in the state get to go. On the flip side, there are 67 teams in A/AA for a total 938 wrestlers. Again 16 from each weight class go for a total of 224. That means only 23.9% of them attend states.

Honestly, I don't see the logic in that.

No matter what division you are in, there is no reason for over 50% of the competition to advance to the state tournament. Just my opinion.

If the state tournament was an 8 man bracket, it becomes a lesser event. With the current regional structure, if the top 2 in each weight class went, it would really become a lessor event.

[mike.carman]

Lets not forget that AAA region 3 has 8 schools while the other three regions only have 7 each.

Looking at it from a different perspective. Hypothetically, if you have 29 teams all of which have full rosters, you get a total of 406 wrestlers in AAA. 16 from each weight class go to states. That's 224. That means 55.2% of all the wrestlers in the state get to go. On the flip side, there are 67 teams in A/AA for a total 938 wrestlers. Again 16 from each weight class go for a total of 224. That means only 23.9% of them attend states.

Honestly, I don't see the logic in that.

No matter what division you are in, there is no reason for over 50% of the competition to advance to the state tournament. Just my opinion.

If the state tournament was an 8 man bracket, it becomes a lesser event. With the current regional structure, if the top 2 in each weight class went, it would really become a lessor event.

I'm not arguing that at all. What I am saying is that there aren't enough AAA schools. Keep in mind that the numbers I stated are the max. Not every school has a full roster. So the percentage of wrestlers that make it to the state tournament goes up. It is probably more like 60%-65% right now if you went by actual numbers.

All I'm saying is that based on numbers solely and not taking into account the strength of region. A wrestler's chances of going to the state tournament are better than 1 in 2 and for A/AA their chances are less than 1 in 4.

That is a big difference.

[greencrush]

I just went through region 3's brackets and counted the wrestlers. There are only 72 kids entered and 4 weight classes with only 4 kids in the weight classes.
Breakdown of regionals:
Region 1 83 wrestlers
Region 2 81 wrestlers
Region 3 72 wrestlers
Region 4 88 wrestlers

True, R3 may not have the quantity, but the quality is there. There are several top guys at every weight.
It certainly doesn't rival R4, but I think if you took an all R3 team against R2 in a dual, they would beat the brakes off R2. It would probably be neck and neck, but they'd beat R1 as well.

[greencrush]

Yikes. Several weight classes with only 5-6 kids. Heck I think the biggest weight class may have 7 kids in it. Found a couple with only 4 kids. So everyone qualifies for states in that weight class as along as they make weight. Hopefully the WVSSAC sees this and changes are made for next year.

Well, considering R3 only has 8 teams, and the other regions have 7, that's the biggest bracket you're going to see in a AAA Region. 5-6 is par for the course with 7 team regions.
I know I advocate an all class tournament, but another solution could be to lower the cutoff for AAA, so that you get 10-12 of the current AA schools back into AAA and level thints out.
One or the other is going to have to happen in order to improve competition.

Bearhugger, in regard to R4 being so tough, yes 2 or 3 good wrestlers may stay home, overall. However, those couple wrestlers aren't going to shake the makeup of the state tournament that much. Also, the top 4 from a region can't see each other until the semi-finals, so it's not like they are going to pick each other off right off the bat at the state tournament. They actually couldn't be separated any better.

[mike.carman]

I just went through region 3's brackets and counted the wrestlers. There are only 72 kids entered and 4 weight classes with only 4 kids in the weight classes.
Breakdown of regionals:
Region 1 83 wrestlers
Region 2 81 wrestlers
Region 3 72 wrestlers
Region 4 88 wrestlers

True, R3 may not have the quantity, but the quality is there. There are several top guys at every weight.
It certainly doesn't rival R4, but I think if you took an all R3 team against R2 in a dual, they would beat the brakes off R2. It would probably be neck and neck, but they'd beat R1 as well.

I agree. There is a lot of quality there, just not numbers. But then again there aren't really numbers state wide in AAA.

[P.H.D.]

And this is exactly what is wrong with our sport. Too many hands in the cookie jar, too much red tape, too many policies that don't make sense. We have principals in charge of rule changes for sports they don't understand or care about. I am not disrespecting the principals at all, so please don't take it like that. What I am saying is that a principal who is not a sports guy/lady, or who is a specific sports guy/lady (football) doesn't understand how their decisions, or lack there of, impact their students. Many of these kids that are getting a raw deal have sold out their entire lives and high school years to a sport, wrestling, and I think it is only fair to expect their principal/leader to spend a few hours to understand what each specific sport needs to flourish. They owe that to their kids, or at least owe it to their kids to pass the power on to a group of people that DO understand.

Preaching to the choir. I feel the same way. Now the rules do say the principal can assign a designee to take their place. I don't know how often that happens and if it does it is probably the assistant principal who is like minded.

I volunteer my services as the designee for all 29 AAA schools. 1. I will solicit input from the sports' communities. 2. I can improve what we got. 3. I like everybody else, can handle anything if I only have to make a decision once every two years.

I feel that the WVSSAC could send a recommendation for change out to the schools requesting a signature and could get 100% compliance. I'm pretty sure the commission can coerce the majority of school officials to approve. What principal feels he is above the state commission? It's laziness pure n simple. We need Mike Carman and Bearhugger spearheading the charge regarding the need for change that the majority desires. Example: Mike Carman is acting President of the WVYWA and a discrepancy regarding a rule change they voted on resulted in forum backlash and hysteria. Mike, being the president he is, took to the forum and explained in detail the decision they made and why. Acknowledging the gravity of the situation and the window of opportunity left to correct it, Mike reconvened with his committee and suspended the vote making nearly everyone ( not all, not never) happy. It did not take 2 years. Mike grabbed the bull by the horns, assembled the hiarchy and proceeded to ammend the legislation. This my friends is called Action With Traction!! Not spinning the wheels in the mud with no one willing to get out and push. Couple this with the Bearhugger, all seeing , all knowing, monitoring the oblivion and sounding the alarm one can only wonder what could not be accomplished right now?

[Bearhugger]

Preaching to the choir. I feel the same way. Now the rules do say the principal can assign a designee to take their place. I don't know how often that happens and if it does it is probably the assistant principal who is like minded.

I volunteer my services as the designee for all 29 AAA schools. 1. I will solicit input from the sports' communities. 2. I can improve what we got. 3. I like everybody else, can handle anything if I only have to make a decision once every two years.

I feel that the WVSSAC could send a recommendation for change out to the schools requesting a signature and could get 100% compliance. I'm pretty sure the commission can coerce the majority of school officials to approve. What principal feels he is above the state commission? It's laziness pure n simple. We need Mike Carman and Bearhugger spearheading the charge regarding the need for change that the majority desires. Example: Mike Carman is acting President of the WVYWA and a discrepancy regarding a rule change they voted on resulted in forum backlash and hysteria. Mike, being the president he is, took to the forum and explained in detail the decision they made and why. Acknowledging the gravity of the situation and the window of opportunity left to correct it, Mike reconvened with his committee and suspended the vote making nearly everyone ( not all, not never) happy. It did not take 2 years. Mike grabbed the bull by the horns, assembled the hiarchy and proceeded to ammend the legislation. This my friends is called Action With Traction!! Not spinning the wheels in the mud with no one willing to get out and push. Couple this with the Bearhugger, all seeing , all knowing, monitoring the oblivion and sounding the alarm one can only wonder what could not be accomplished right now?

While monitoring the oblivion, I have come across two weight classes in a region that are in jeopardy of dropping to "show up and qualify" status. In an effort not to offend anybody, these regions and weight classes shall remain classified.

[aaacoach89]

Preaching to the choir. I feel the same way. Now the rules do say the principal can assign a designee to take their place. I don't know how often that happens and if it does it is probably the assistant principal who is like minded.

I volunteer my services as the designee for all 29 AAA schools. 1. I will solicit input from the sports' communities. 2. I can improve what we got. 3. I like everybody else, can handle anything if I only have to make a decision once every two years.

I feel that the WVSSAC could send a recommendation for change out to the schools requesting a signature and could get 100% compliance. I'm pretty sure the commission can coerce the majority of school officials to approve. What principal feels he is above the state commission? It's laziness pure n simple. We need Mike Carman and Bearhugger spearheading the charge regarding the need for change that the majority desires. Example: Mike Carman is acting President of the WVYWA and a discrepancy regarding a rule change they voted on resulted in forum backlash and hysteria. Mike, being the president he is, took to the forum and explained in detail the decision they made and why. Acknowledging the gravity of the situation and the window of opportunity left to correct it, Mike reconvened with his committee and suspended the vote making nearly everyone ( not all, not never) happy. It did not take 2 years. Mike grabbed the bull by the horns, assembled the hiarchy and proceeded to ammend the legislation. This my friends is called Action With Traction!! Not spinning the wheels in the mud with no one willing to get out and push. Couple this with the Bearhugger, all seeing , all knowing, monitoring the oblivion and sounding the alarm one can only wonder what could not be accomplished right now?

I agree with the above post. Leadership like that is what this sport needs!

[guard0544]

Who needs the WVSSAC? Go to an all-club state and make up our own rules. Who needs all the paperwork we have to deal with now anyways. Take back the power

[mike.carman]

Who needs the WVSSAC? Go to an all-club state and make up our own rules. Who needs all the paperwork we have to deal with now anyways. Take back the power

The conundrum this presents is this. The schools pay a membership fee the the WVSSAC. The principals are in charge of the WVSSAC. So to accomplish this there are 2 scenarios that can happen.
1. Very unlikely, the schools withdraw from the WVSSAC and don't pay their membership. This won't happen because then the principals will be giving their power up. We all know that once someone gets power, they are very un-willing to give that power up.
2. All the kids would need to go to clubs only and have no school affiliation. That is fine for some areas. They would be in the minority and in other areas there would be no options for those kids. Also, coaches would not get their "pay" for coaching. It isn't much but it is something, so you would loose a lot of your coaches.

I don't see this as a realistic or viable solution and it would make a bad situation worse.

[guard0544]

Who needs the WVSSAC? Go to an all-club state and make up our own rules. Who needs all the paperwork we have to deal with now anyways. Take back the power

The conundrum this presents is this. The schools pay a membership fee the the WVSSAC. The principals are in charge of the WVSSAC. So to accomplish this there are 2 scenarios that can happen.
1. Very unlikely, the schools withdraw from the WVSSAC and don't pay their membership. This won't happen because then the principals will be giving their power up. We all know that once someone gets power, they are very un-willing to give that power up.
2. All the kids would need to go to clubs only and have no school affiliation. That is fine for some areas. They would be in the minority and in other areas there would be no options for those kids. Also, coaches would not get their "pay" for coaching. It isn't much but it is something, so you would loose a lot of your coaches.

I don't see this as a realistic or viable solution and it would make a bad situation worse.

I do not see that as a viable alternative. I was joking around. Fewer kids would be able to participate if it were left entirely to the parents to transport them to practice, to events, etc.

[mike.carman]

Who needs the WVSSAC? Go to an all-club state and make up our own rules. Who needs all the paperwork we have to deal with now anyways. Take back the power

The conundrum this presents is this. The schools pay a membership fee the the WVSSAC. The principals are in charge of the WVSSAC. So to accomplish this there are 2 scenarios that can happen.
1. Very unlikely, the schools withdraw from the WVSSAC and don't pay their membership. This won't happen because then the principals will be giving their power up. We all know that once someone gets power, they are very un-willing to give that power up.
2. All the kids would need to go to clubs only and have no school affiliation. That is fine for some areas. They would be in the minority and in other areas there would be no options for those kids. Also, coaches would not get their "pay" for coaching. It isn't much but it is something, so you would loose a lot of your coaches.

I don't see this as a realistic or viable solution and it would make a bad situation worse.

I do not see that as a viable alternative. I was joking around. Fewer kids would be able to participate if it were left entirely to the parents to transport them to practice, to events, etc.

No ideas are bad ideas. Joking or not, there are some out there that see this as the solution.