AAA Region 2 - 5/7 Schools Reporting

[Bearhugger]

After one week of action, we have five out of seven AAA Region 2 posting scores.

Hampshire and Musselman are still playing hard to get.

Based on the scores, here is how many wrestlers are in each weight class of the five reporting schools:

106: 5

113: 2 Need two more

120: 2 Need two more

126: 3 Need one more

132: 4

138: 4

145: 4

152: 3 Need one more

160: 4

170: 5

182: 5

195: 3 Need one more

220: 4

285: 2 Need two more

I hope Hampshire and Musselman have full squads, otherwise we might have byes heading into the state tournament.

I suggest somebody starts a motion to allow ranked wrestlers who place 5th in their region to get a "wild card" into the state tournament instead of allowing byes.

Lets make wrestling great again.

[brentsams]

I second your motion.
I don't think Hampshire or Musselman have wrestled yet. I found these schedules on their school's home page.

Musselman High School Wrestling Schedule
12/09/2016 Fri. 5:00 PM (A) Tournament Point Pleasant Point Pleasant High School
12/10/2016 Sat. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament Point Pleasant Point Pleasant High School
12/16/2016 Fri. 1:00 PM (H) Tournament Hedgesville Musselman High School
12/16/2016 Fri. 4:00 PM (H) Tournament Hedgesville Musselman High School
12/17/2016 Sat. 9:00 AM (H) Tournament Hedgesville Musselman High School
12/28/2016 Wed. 9:00 PM (A) Tournament Wheeling Park Wheeling Park High School
12/29/2016 Thu. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament Wheeling Park Wheeling Park High School
01/04/2017 Wed. 6:00 PM (A) Quad Warren County, Hampshire Clarke County High School
01/06/2017 Fri. 5:00 PM (A) Tournament North Hagerstown North Hagerstown High School
01/07/2017 Sat. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament North Hagerstown North Hagerstown High School
01/11/2017 Wed. 6:00 PM (A) Match James Wood James Wood High School
01/13/2017 Fri. 5:00 PM (A) Tournament Burgettstown Burgettstown High School
01/14/2017 Sat. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament Burgettstown Burgettstown High School
01/20/2017 Fri. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament Huntington Huntington High School
01/21/2017 Sat. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament Huntington Huntington High School
01/28/2017 Sat. 5:00 PM (A) Quad Parkersburg, Ripley University High School
02/04/2017 Sat. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament Jefferson, Martinsburg H S , Spring Mills, Washington, Hedgesville Jefferson High School
02/04/2017 Sat. 9:00 AM (A) Tournament Jefferson, Martinsburg H S , Spring Mills, Washington, Hedgesville Jefferson High School

Hampshire High School Wrestling Schedule
Sat 12/10 9:00 am Away @ Keyser High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Kawanis Tournament
Wed 12/14 2:00 pm Away @ Northern Garrett High School
Fri 12/16 4:30 pm Away @ Musselman High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Musselman Duals
Sat 12/17 9:00 am Away @ Musselman High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Musselman Duals
Wed 12/21 6:00 pm Away @ Frankfort High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Allegany, Frankfort Tri
Fri 01/06 4:00 pm Away @ Fort Hill High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Fort Hill Super Duals
Sat 01/07 9:00 am Away @ Fort Hill High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Fort Hill Super Duals
Thu 01/19 2:00 pm Home vs Allegany High School
Sat 01/21 9:00 am Away @ Clarke County High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Clarke County Invite
Wed 01/25 4:00 pm Away @ Washington High School (Multiple Opponents) Meet: Wrestling Tri
Thu 01/26 7:30 pm Away @ Mountain Ridge High School
Wed 02/08 6:00 pm Home vs Multiple Opponents Meet: Wrestling Tri
Thu 02/09 4:00 pm Away @ Preston High School

[Bearhugger]

After one week of action, we have five out of seven AAA Region 2 posting scores.

Hampshire and Musselman are still playing hard to get.

Based on the scores, here is how many wrestlers are in each weight class of the five reporting schools:

106: 5

113: 2 Need two more

120: 2 Need two more

126: 3 Need one more

132: 4

138: 4

145: 4

152: 3 Need one more

160: 4

170: 5

182: 5

195: 3 Need one more

220: 4

285: 2 Need two more

I hope Hampshire and Musselman have full squads, otherwise we might have byes heading into the state tournament.

I suggest somebody starts a motion to allow ranked wrestlers who place 5th in their region to get a "wild card" into the state tournament instead of allowing byes.

Lets make wrestling great again.

All seven schools from AAA region 2 have reported scores now.

113 only has three wrestlers. Ironically, one of them appears to be a hammer. Sledge hammer. Maybe a jackhammer.

120 has two wrestlers.

I will add that I checked some schools during week one, but I may have not checked during week 2.

We are headed toward byes at the state tournament.

We better look at a wild card system for the 5th placers that are ranked in the top ten.

[greencrush]

Or go to an all class tournament, as it should have been all along.

[aaacoach33]

Or go to an all class tournament, as it should have been all along.

And add a sectional

[Frank]

Explain the Bennefits of an all class tournament

[aaacoach33]

Explain the Bennefits of an all class tournament

For starters being a state qualifier will have more value. Right now there will be kids who are state qualifiers just by stepping on a scale.

[Ricflairchop]

There are b team wrestlers on some teams that are better than most kids who qualify for states

[Frank]

Explain the Bennefits of an all class tournament

For starters being a state qualifier will have more value. Right now there will be kids who are state qualifiers just by stepping on a scale.

Explain value

[Frank]

There are b team wrestlers on some teams that are better than most kids who qualify for states

In some parents mind your statement will always be true

[aaacoach33]

Explain the Bennefits of an all class tournament

For starters being a state qualifier will have more value. Right now there will be kids who are state qualifiers just by stepping on a scale.

Explain value

Making it to states should mean that you're a great wrestler not that you have at least a 2.0 GPA and weigh the right amount. In some cases that's all it takes. All class states would fix that. That's all I'm saying.

[Bearhugger]

Explain the Bennefits of an all class tournament

For starters being a state qualifier will have more value. Right now there will be kids who are state qualifiers just by stepping on a scale.

Something better be done to make kids think that being a wrestler has value. Too many forfeits these days.

[Bearhugger]

There are b team wrestlers on some teams that are better than most kids who qualify for states

We need to let all B teamers enter the region. If they qualify, then let them into the state.

The team race is a joke. In AAA, South has it wrapped up for the next 12 to 20 years.

In AA/A, Indy has it wrapped up at least for the next 2 to 3 years. Maybe longer than that.

[Frank]

For starters being a state qualifier will have more value. Right now there will be kids who are state qualifiers just by stepping on a scale.

Explain value

Making it to states should mean that you're a great wrestler not that you have at least a 2.0 GPA and weigh the right amount. In some cases that's all it takes. All class states would fix that. That's all I'm saying.

Get off the defense, I'm not saying your wrong at all. I see your point and many other that supports yours. I just want to hear some one say it. By the way I see the positives of those who argue the other side.
Honestly I'm undecided. But I got a kid in AA, where the stiffer competition is. Lol

[admin]

Intercepted Memo:

There are no byes at the state tournament. They are not called byes because they are not by state tournament rules scored as byes. They are scored as a default or forfeit depending on how it is reported. Who ever has a match in the defaulted position receives the same points as if he or she had a fall. Same in consolation bracket except one less advancement point.

Many people have pointed out the problems to the powers that be that placing teams by the map only and paying no attention to size, strength and history of teams was going to cause big problems.

Bill Archer
State Tournament Director

[Bearhugger]

Intercepted Memo:

There are no byes at the state tournament. They are not called byes because they are not by state tournament rules scored as byes. They are scored as a default or forfeit depending on how it is reported. Who ever has a match in the defaulted position receives the same points as if he or she had a fall. Same in consolation bracket except one less advancement point.

Many people have pointed out the problems to the powers that be that placing teams by the map only and paying no attention to size, strength and history of teams was going to cause big problems.

Bill Archer
State Tournament Director

Now that we have quantifiable evidence that the problems are actually happening, I suggest some action be taken rather than sitting back and riding it out. Something could be done to allow 16 wrestlers in each bracket at the state tournament, regardless of lack of regional participation. We are still in December.

As for all of the coaches afraid of somebody gaining a few extra team points because another team got a "wild card" wrestler in, look at the alternative.

1. As stated by the admin, some regional champ could get free points in the state tournament first round rather than earning them. If a wrestler was inserted to cover the absence, then the two have to fight it out. We already have enough free rides going on in this country as it is.

2. Wrestlers who work hard all season and win as much as they can, typically find themselves both in the rankings and in the top 5 or 6. Wild carding a wrestler in to fill a void is a way to show young folks that hard work and dedication does STILL indeed pay off.

3. Today is December 14th. I cannot believe that a solution cannot be achieved by January 14th and then every coach and every wrestler has until February 14th to get acclimated to the idea. From February 14th to February 17th/18th (region time), focus on qualifying for the state tournament. Understand that getting 5th might be your last ticket.

To expand further, here is a simple solution.

Criteria 1: The potential "wild card" wrestler must win 5th place in their region. This now gives the decision makers only 3 wrestlers to compare and contrast.

Criteria 2: Who holds wins over the other in regard to the three wrestlers in question.

Criteria 3: Use the seeding criteria used to seed regional tournaments to evaluate the three wrestlers in question.

Criteria 4: Prior to the regional tournament, which of the three was ranked the highest?

Before we can "MAKE WRESTLING GREAT AGAIN", we have to stop it from getting worse.

[maskedman]

(Bearhugger) When the pill is drawn, there could be a region order to fill open spots with the fifth place finisher. If pill 1 is drawn, region 1 fills first vacancy, then region 2 fills next vacancy, region 3 gets the third vacancy....so on and so forth. Would make the fifth and sixth place matches more important. I do like your idea to fill the brackets. Nothing worse than making weight for states to having a bye when there is only one round on day one.

[Bearhugger]

(Bearhugger) When the pill is drawn, there could be a region order to fill open spots with the fifth place finisher. If pill 1 is drawn, region 1 fills first vacancy, then region 2 fills next vacancy, region 3 gets the third vacancy....so on and so forth. Would make the fifth and sixth place matches more important. I do like your idea to fill the brackets. Nothing worse than making weight for states to having a bye when there is only one round on day one.

We need to get the best wrestlers into the state tournament. Ultimately, the B teamers need to be given a chance. WV has some B teamers on at least three teams that I know of that could and probably would place in the state tournament. One of them probably would make it to the finals.

[Sally]

Something better be done to make kids think that being a wrestler has value. Too many forfeits these days.

I am not sure what can be done to get some kids to wrestle. State qualifiers, placers, WSAZ placers are just a few examples of kids who decided no to return this season. These are kids who found success in the sport. We are not talking about losing kids who went 0-15 in their first year as a JV wrestler.

There are b team wrestlers on some teams that are better than most kids who qualify for states

Yes there are. Look at Parkersburg South's JV results.

3. Today is December 14th. I cannot believe that a solution cannot be achieved by January 14th and then every coach and every wrestler has until February 14th to get acclimated to the idea. From February 14th to February 17th/18th (region time), focus on qualifying for the state tournament. Understand that getting 5th might be your last ticket.

The folks who control these rules for our state most likely would not allow it this season. They might place the fault of our current situation on the Coach's Committee for not providing a more "Sound Solution." It's also been my experience that whenever you need rule interpretation from these same folks, they always refer us coaches to Dr. Welker. In other words, these same folks do not know or care to know about the sport, its rules, and what might be best for kids. However, I would love it if these folks proved us all wrong and did something that made sense.

[Bearhugger]

Something better be done to make kids think that being a wrestler has value. Too many forfeits these days.

I am not sure what can be done to get some kids to wrestle. State qualifiers, placers, WSAZ placers are just a few examples of kids who decided no to return this season. These are kids who found success in the sport. We are not talking about losing kids who went 0-15 in their first year as a JV wrestler.

There are b team wrestlers on some teams that are better than most kids who qualify for states

Yes there are. Look at Parkersburg South's JV results.

3. Today is December 14th. I cannot believe that a solution cannot be achieved by January 14th and then every coach and every wrestler has until February 14th to get acclimated to the idea. From February 14th to February 17th/18th (region time), focus on qualifying for the state tournament. Understand that getting 5th might be your last ticket.

The folks who control these rules for our state most likely would not allow it this season. They might place the fault of our current situation on the Coach's Committee for not providing a more "Sound Solution." It's also been my experience that whenever you need rule interpretation from these same folks, they always refer us coaches to Dr. Welker. In other words, these same folks do not know or care to know about the sport, its rules, and what might be best for kids. However, I would love it if these folks proved us all wrong and did something that made sense.

This season has already provided us with some "most unlikely" situations where some kids tried and succeeded. We should follow their lead and "try" now. After this season, many seniors are gone for good. There is no turning back.

[Sally]

Good point Bear. I like your optimism. Take a look at today's WV Gazette article with new executive director Dolan.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports-mit ... rnie-dolan

[i]On rules changes: “Well, I’d like to remind schools that if they have any rules proposals, they need to be into our [SSAC] offices by Jan. 15,” Dolan said. “They are then voted on in April.

“This year, we had one thing different that came out of our coaches committee: recognition in cross country and wrestling. We’ve had AAA and a combined AA-A championship in both because we didn’t have enough teams in AA and A classes. And we’ll still have that. But what we’re doing is recognizing the first two Class A teams as state champion and runner-up.”[/i]

I recall several prominent single A coaches at the Friday morning Coaching Committee meeting (State Tournament) passing this idea several years ago. I do not have all the facts but it seems this idea has taken at least 2 years to get approval.
Again, I would love to see changes for the better but.....

[Bearhugger]

Good point Bear. I like your optimism. Take a look at today's WV Gazette article with new executive director Dolan.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports-mit ... rnie-dolan

[i]On rules changes: “Well, I’d like to remind schools that if they have any rules proposals, they need to be into our [SSAC] offices by Jan. 15,” Dolan said. “They are then voted on in April.

“This year, we had one thing different that came out of our coaches committee: recognition in cross country and wrestling. We’ve had AAA and a combined AA-A championship in both because we didn’t have enough teams in AA and A classes. And we’ll still have that. But what we’re doing is recognizing the first two Class A teams as state champion and runner-up.”[/i]

I recall several prominent single A coaches at the Friday morning Coaching Committee meeting (State Tournament) passing this idea several years ago. I do not have all the facts but it seems this idea has taken at least 2 years to get approval.
Again, I would love to see changes for the better but.....

Somebody needs to take a proposal to this man asap. Anything would be better than what is about to happen in February when the byes hit the state tournament.

Some people call them defaults, I call them byes.