Several topics

[tnur12]

I am probably spending way too much time reading this forum and you might say I should just quit. However, may I enter a few observations.
This forum was created to generate interest by Doc. Many people contribute and enjoy the back and forth debate. Some may be using it to push an agenda. I would like to say a few things about a few of the ideas floating out there. I have been accused of rambling about wrestling, so put up with me for a few minutes.
The rankings can be something of a predictor of the state results, I agree. To say that the rankings should then be taken into consideration for regional seeding tho is not valid. If you have been in seeding meetings there are criteria agreed to and used to determine the seeds. Not in any seeding meeting I ever took part in, there were many over the years, was a polls ranking ever considered. The rankings are based on coaches input. If only a few take part then that is not a true reflection of the season. Team polls were originally created to predict state tournament results not who is better in the regular season. Each year the power shifts. Regions cannot be realigned each year as one writer suggested.
Permitting JV's to enter the regional creates immense problems. Not the least of which Doc addressed by asking whose JV's get in. No body likes to see byes at the state tournament and the idea of a 5th place regional winner being put in has been stopped several times.
One idea was to go to a single class tournament. If people are concerned about getting the best to the states, that will not work. There will always be wrestlers left home who people believe should be there because of some wins during the season no matter the regional alignment or format. WV left a single class format years ago to give more kids a chance.
The WVSSAC new class alignments for 2016 - 2020 has generated a lot of discussion for all sports. Wrestling is not the only one affected. Perhaps there should be a real 3 class tournament like several of the other sports as well as a team tournament. Get committee coaches and principals support for both.
Finally, WV high school wrestling needs more kids. Some schools can not and will never be able to come up with a full team. What some do successfully others can't. Take the team for a demonstration to the middle school during resource. Do not come down on schools with small squads. Everyone wants more. Communities want more. Work with what is available and work to improve.

[vortexfan]

Very good post but I have not heard much on having a two regional system in this state.
I know it will not change this year and maybe not the next year but I do think it would have a better chance of bringing the top 16 (8 from both regions) to wrestle at the state. Should decrease the chances of byes at State also.
I vision to keep A/AA and AAA in separate tourneys.
The JV thing is sad but I would like to see them participate but their team points would be counted as separate B team for the school they represent.

[Bearhugger]

I am probably spending way too much time reading this forum and you might say I should just quit. However, may I enter a few observations.
This forum was created to generate interest by Doc. Many people contribute and enjoy the back and forth debate. Some may be using it to push an agenda. I would like to say a few things about a few of the ideas floating out there. I have been accused of rambling about wrestling, so put up with me for a few minutes.
The rankings can be something of a predictor of the state results, I agree. To say that the rankings should then be taken into consideration for regional seeding tho is not valid. If you have been in seeding meetings there are criteria agreed to and used to determine the seeds. Not in any seeding meeting I ever took part in, there were many over the years, was a polls ranking ever considered. The rankings are based on coaches input. If only a few take part then that is not a true reflection of the season. Team polls were originally created to predict state tournament results not who is better in the regular season. Each year the power shifts. Regions cannot be realigned each year as one writer suggested.
Permitting JV's to enter the regional creates immense problems. Not the least of which Doc addressed by asking whose JV's get in. No body likes to see byes at the state tournament and the idea of a 5th place regional winner being put in has been stopped several times.
One idea was to go to a single class tournament. If people are concerned about getting the best to the states, that will not work. There will always be wrestlers left home who people believe should be there because of some wins during the season no matter the regional alignment or format. WV left a single class format years ago to give more kids a chance.
The WVSSAC new class alignments for 2016 - 2020 has generated a lot of discussion for all sports. Wrestling is not the only one affected. Perhaps there should be a real 3 class tournament like several of the other sports as well as a team tournament. Get committee coaches and principals support for both.
Finally, WV high school wrestling needs more kids. Some schools can not and will never be able to come up with a full team. What some do successfully others can't. Take the team for a demonstration to the middle school during resource. Do not come down on schools with small squads. Everyone wants more. Communities want more. Work with what is available and work to improve.

For this writing, I am going to discuss the JV only. The JV enter the WSAZ and there is not problem. The JV enter the Coalfield and Cardinal conferences and there is no problem. The JV enter many other tournaments all season long and there in no problem.

The idea that has been presented is letting the JV enter the regional tournament. At that time, all kids wrestle. Whoever places in the top 4, qualifies for the state tournament. If a JV wrestler qualifies, then he/she enters the state tournament as a separate team.

Now lets reflect on the 2017 WSAZ results. Many JV wrestlers entered. I believe that only on JV wrestler finished in the top 4. If the WSAZ was a regional tournament, then all the JV were given a shot and only one broke through in the top four, thus qualifying for the state tournament.

Just how is this a problem?

[tnur12]

When have JV teams of any kind/any sport entered a state qualifying tournament except as replacements for missing varsity contestants? JV teams are often entered in regular season meets such as wrestling, cross country, track. However when the state qualifying starts JVs as a team are left home. It is a varsity only competition. You say you want the best competing, they are and they are the varsity.

[aaacoach89]

Very well thought out post. My question is with the 5th place Regional finisher being used to fill bye/forfeit spots at the State Tournament. You say it has been shot down several times, but there is no logical reason given as to why. I think that is the issue for me.... I have no issue with being told no on an idea to improve, but in my business career, that no was generally followed up with a logical reason as to why that idea was not feasible or in the best interest of the company I worked for. Nobody has presented that logical reason for the no, it's just "it's always been that way, so no". If, as a state, we have solid, competitive, winning record (against solid competition) wrestlers sitting at home during the state tournament, while there are open slots in their weight class....it's just not a good look for wrestling. I agree 100% with the numbers are down, doing the best with what you have, trying to improve, but some will never be able to fill a full team.......that's is real life. What I don't agree with is to not make a change that will give kids a shot when other Regions cannot produce enough kids to fill that weight class for the state tournament.

[aaacoach17]

That's not totally true when comparing wrestling vs other individual sports. In track you are able to enter multiple athletes in the same event. I know examples of when a school has finished first, second, and third in a particular event at the state meet. Cross country has multiple qualifiers for a race and tennis has different seeds to compete at rather than just one entry per school. It's not comparing apples to apples but other sports do allow multiple people on the same team to be state champs. Wrestling you could say gives multiple people the same opportunity with different weight classes, but again track allows multiple people per event.

[tnur12]

As a coach, I tried to affect this change when it occurred. I had a fifth that could have replaced a bye. I sought to get him or another fifth that opportunity.
I think it is the pill argument in another form. Who would and how is it decided which region sends their fifth place man?

[Bearhugger]

When have JV teams of any kind/any sport entered a state qualifying tournament except as replacements for missing varsity contestants? JV teams are often entered in regular season meets such as wrestling, cross country, track. However when the state qualifying starts JVs as a team are left home. It is a varsity only competition. You say you want the best competing, they are and they are the varsity.

East Fairmont has a JV 106 pounder that has defeated numerous ranked wrestlers that are currently ranked in both AAA and AA/A.

He would qualify and I am sure he would place too.

[Bearhugger]

Very well thought out post. My question is with the 5th place Regional finisher being used to fill bye/forfeit spots at the State Tournament. You say it has been shot down several times, but there is no logical reason given as to why. I think that is the issue for me.... I have no issue with being told no on an idea to improve, but in my business career, that no was generally followed up with a logical reason as to why that idea was not feasible or in the best interest of the company I worked for. Nobody has presented that logical reason for the no, it's just "it's always been that way, so no". If, as a state, we have solid, competitive, winning record (against solid competition) wrestlers sitting at home during the state tournament, while there are open slots in their weight class....it's just not a good look for wrestling. I agree 100% with the numbers are down, doing the best with what you have, trying to improve, but some will never be able to fill a full team.......that's is real life. What I don't agree with is to not make a change that will give kids a shot when other Regions cannot produce enough kids to fill that weight class for the state tournament.

Come February 18th or 19th, there will be a wealth of data available (regional results) that will support this argument further. Byes in the state tournament is not good for the sport when the AAA schools have a 21% forfeit rate. For now, some of us just have to keep fighting the fight.................................and I can go on for years!!!!!!!!!

[Bearhugger]

As a coach, I tried to affect this change when it occurred. I had a fifth that could have replaced a bye. I sought to get him or another fifth that opportunity.
I think it is the pill argument in another form. Who would and how is it decided which region sends their fifth place man?

Tournaments use criteria to seed wrestlers. The same criteria could be used to evaluate the 3 fifth place winners. If two of them are top notch, then put them in a pigtail match at the state tournament.

I really cannot see 3 fifth place finishers being of equal talent, equal record, equal anything. Two needing to wrestle a pigtail is a stretch.

For fun, any of us can look through the fifth place finishers on February 18th. There might be a few ranked wrestlers, there will be some wrestlers with losing records and some might be wrestlers we have never heard of.

A simple rule change could fix this problem (growing problem). Actually, with the wealth of regional weight classes that only have four wrestlers, this should serve as an indicator that we have been lucky in the past. Luck always runs out and then we have to scramble to do damage control.

It has finally come down to a mismanaged system is finally started to fail bigly.

[Sally]

Nobody has presented that logical reason for the no, it's just "it's always been that way, so no".

Your first mistake was asking for logical reasoning.

To say that the rankings should then be taken into consideration for regional seeding tho is not valid. If you have been in seeding meetings there are criteria agreed to and used to determine the seeds.

I agree that rankings should not be the number 1 criteria for seeding. However I disagree that the rankings are not valid. (Yes occasionally lack of adequate data by coaches leads to a mistake) The NCAA uses rankings to aid in determining their seeds.

For fun, lets say all the proposed solutions of the forum were put in place. What would fans, parents, wrestlers, and coaches gripe about then?

[aaacoach89]

Nobody has presented that logical reason for the no, it's just "it's always been that way, so no".

Your first mistake was asking for logical reasoning.

To say that the rankings should then be taken into consideration for regional seeding tho is not valid. If you have been in seeding meetings there are criteria agreed to and used to determine the seeds.

I agree that rankings should not be the number 1 criteria for seeding. However I disagree that the rankings are not valid. (Yes occasionally lack of adequate data by coaches leads to a mistake) The NCAA uses rankings to aid in determining their seeds.

For fun, lets say all the proposed solutions of the forum were put in place. What would fans, parents, wrestlers, and coaches gripe about then?

Lol!!! At least the gripes and complaints would be new topics.....there wouldn't be so many debates that's best argument is "we've talked about this for years". I, for one, enjoy variety.

[tnur12]

This tread just continues to go on and on. If the coaches could agree, then they are the ones to push for a change. Push their ADs and principals to call for working session with the WVSSAC. However, you can't get coaches to turn in results to be published which then limits the few coaches who vote on the rankings which can and does skew the very subjective rankings.
To bearhuggers point about the two "best" fifth place finishers being put in a pigtail, the people left behind would then clamor for a round robin to fill the bye.
I do not like byes in any tournament. I wanted my wrestlers to wrestle.

[Sally]

However, you can't get coaches to turn in results to be published which then limits the few coaches who vote on the rankings which can and does skew the very subjective rankings.

How are the rankings subjective?

[Tiger44001]

Wow! What a hot topic! I think the best way, and fairest way, to fill in "bye" brackets is to rat tail in ALL 5th placer. If only 1 is needed, let the cream rise. If 2 are need, rat tail again ALL 3 wrestlers, first with 2 loses is out. Definitly, you can not go with rankings for the eligible person, because IMO, the ranking system here is a JOKE! The latest individual AAA rankings are proof in the pudding. Explain to me how you can have in 2 weight classes, 2 individuals move UP in rankings, one by 1 spot, another by 3, by beating non ranked wrestlers the week before, another RANKED wrestler, different weight class, beating a non ranked wrestler and moving DOWN 2 spots, and finally, at yet ANOTHER weight class, 2 RANKED WRESTLERS going at, #1 v #5, and the #5 wrestler BEAT the #1 by a 6-3 score that had no last minute scoring. NEITHER WRESTLERS MOVED in this week's ranking either. All wrestlers involved in this had a dual meet against one and other last week, with both teams being ranked as top 5 teams in the state. That makes no sense to me what so ever in individual rankings, and is my point as to why ranking should not be used on which 5th place winner should be used. Any thoughts?

[admin]

Explain to me how you can have in 2 weight classes, 2 individuals move UP in rankings, one by 1 spot, another by 3, by beating non ranked wrestlers the week before, another RANKED wrestler, different weight class, beating a non ranked wrestler and moving DOWN 2 spots, and finally, at yet ANOTHER weight class, 2 RANKED WRESTLERS going at, #1 v #5, and the #5 wrestler BEAT the #1 by a 6-3 score that had no last minute scoring. NEITHER WRESTLERS MOVED in this week's ranking either.

Help me out here. What weight classes do you refer to?

[Tiger44001]

Weight classes are : 126, 132, 138, and 160. The 160 weight class had the #1 ranked vs #5 ranked match.

[admin]

The 160 weight class had the #1 ranked vs #5 ranked match.

Are you referring to AAA #5 Frisco defeating AA/A #1 Booth? Different classifications. I don't see why Booth should drop after losing to someone he is not ranked with, and don't see why Frisco should raise.

As for 126, 132, 138 - which division -AAA or AA/A?

I'm not trying to be testy or have an argument - you might be right. Things get fouled up and overlooked. I just want to look at it.

[aaacoach89]

I don't think the ranking system on here is a joke at all. As a matter of fact, when it all washes out at the end of the year...they are a pretty accurate predictor for where kids finish on the podium or not. You will always have a few Cinderella stories and those that shock the state, and that is awesome and exciting. But for the most part, they are pretty close. The only difference I would suggest would be counting AA/A and AAA wins towards the rankings. For instance if a AAA kid beats a ranked AA/A kid, it should help him. I know that they are different classes, but I don't think anyone is going to argue that AA/A is just as good as AAA over the last few years. So when a AAA kid beats a ranked AA/A kid or vice versa, it is a quality win and opponent and should count. That's really the only tweak I would make to the rankings. Also, if more coaches would get on and give feedback and their own opinions on the rankings it would help I am sure.

[Sally]

Doc is smarter than most of us combined. I figure the rankings are more accurate than they are inaccurate. Remember most people who do not like the rankings may have trouble seeing them objectively.

I am not defending the rankings for the use of the 5th place to fill in the bye. I am defending my opinion that they are fairly accurate once the season comes to an end. Early in December or January, yes I think they are more for motivation. After WSAZ and many conference tournaments take place, I feel they are a pretty good gauge of the weight class.

[admin]

Explain to me how you can have in 2 weight classes, 2 individuals move UP in rankings, one by 1 spot, another by 3, by beating non ranked wrestlers the week before, another RANKED wrestler, different weight class, beating a non ranked wrestler and moving DOWN 2 spots,

Feb 2
Weight Class 126
1. Luke Martin, Parkersburg South
2. Steven Slack, Riverside
3. Austin Love, John Marshall
4. Jack Lorea, George Washington
5. Eric Dryer, Washington
6. Andrew Shelek, Wheeling Park
7. Tyler Cutright, Buckhannon-Upshur
8. Braxton Byrd, Parkersburg High
9. Garrett Jordan, Cabell Midland
10. Brise Bennett, University

Feb 9
Weight Class 126
1. Luke Martin, Parkersburg South
2. Steven Slack, Riverside
3. Austin Love, John Marshall
4. Jack Lorea, George Washington
5. Eric Dryer, Washington
6. Tyler Cutright, Buckhannon-Upshur
7. Brise Bennett, University
8. Tyler Haskins, Ripley
9. Garrett Jordan, Cabell Midland
10. Braxton Byrd, Parkersburg High

A: In this case, Cutright moved up one spot from #7 to #6 because Shelek, who was 2nd at Doan and 5th at North Canton in mid December and has not been seen in the reported results since, was taken out of the rankings. Everybody below him moved up a spot.

Haskins of Ripley jumped into the rankings at #8 ahead of Jordan having defeated him twice at the MSAC. It is true that Jordan defeated Haskins at WSAZ. There are multiple instances of wrestlers splitting matches. Generally, whoever has the most recent win gets the higher rank. "What have you done for me lately."

Bennett also moved up due to the fact that he defeated Haskins on Jan 28, thus it would be reasonable to rank Bennett ahead of Haskins. This is how he jumped 3 places - not because of what he did, but because of what someone he has recently defeated did.

Thus it was ranked Bennett #7, Haskins #8, and Jordan #9.

Byrd dropped to #10 having been defeated by Jordan at the MSAC.

The fly in the ointment here is that Jordan has defeated Bennett early in the season at the Superior Photo. Bennett has defeated Haskins, Haskins has recently defeated Jordan, and Jordan defeated Bennett early in the season This is like a 3-man Round Robin where each wrestler is 1-1. There are numerous instances of this scenerio scattered throughout the rankings. I have not figured out a good way to solve this conundrum. In this case, Bennett was ranked ahead of the other two based on most recent results.


Feb 2
Weight Class 132
1. Kaleb Creamer, Spring Valley
2. Hunter Burdette, Ripley
3. Jacob Smithson, Buckhannon Upshur
4. Mikey Shamblin, Parkersburg South
5. Bo Moler, Parkersburg High
6. Isaac Isabell, George Washington
7. Taylor Hutchison, Huntington
8. Matt Blake, Cabell Midland
9. Oliver Lopez, Riverside
10. Braeden Pauley, University

Feb 9
Weight Class 132
1. Kaleb Creamer, Spring Valley
2. Hunter Burdette, Ripley
3. Jacob Smithson, Buckhannon Upshur
4. Mikey Shamblin, Parkersburg South
5. Bo Moler, Parkersburg High
6. Gabe Dempsey, Huntington
7. Isaac Isabell, George Washington
8. Oliver Lopez, Riverside
9. Braeden Pauley, University
10. Max Camilletti, Brooke


In 132, Hutchison was taken out of the rankings since Dempsey was Huntington's entry at MSAC. Dempsey split matches with Isabell, losing to him in the quarterfinals but defeating him in the finals for third (Dempsey finished 3rd, Isabell 4th). Thus, Dempsey comes into the rankings at #6 ahead of Isabell. Blake was removed because he has not been seen on the mat for some time. Lopez and Pauley moved to #8 and #9, and Camilletti comes in at #10.

[Bearhugger]

Explain to me how you can have in 2 weight classes, 2 individuals move UP in rankings, one by 1 spot, another by 3, by beating non ranked wrestlers the week before, another RANKED wrestler, different weight class, beating a non ranked wrestler and moving DOWN 2 spots,

Feb 2
Weight Class 126
1. Luke Martin, Parkersburg South
2. Steven Slack, Riverside
3. Austin Love, John Marshall
4. Jack Lorea, George Washington
5. Eric Dryer, Washington
6. Andrew Shelek, Wheeling Park
7. Tyler Cutright, Buckhannon-Upshur
8. Braxton Byrd, Parkersburg High
9. Garrett Jordan, Cabell Midland
10. Brise Bennett, University

Feb 9
Weight Class 126
1. Luke Martin, Parkersburg South
2. Steven Slack, Riverside
3. Austin Love, John Marshall
4. Jack Lorea, George Washington
5. Eric Dryer, Washington
6. Tyler Cutright, Buckhannon-Upshur
7. Brise Bennett, University
8. Tyler Haskins, Ripley
9. Garrett Jordan, Cabell Midland
10. Braxton Byrd, Parkersburg High

A: In this case, Cutright moved up one spot from #7 to #6 because Shelek, who was 2nd at Doan and 5th at North Canton in mid December and has not been seen in the reported results since, was taken out of the rankings. Everybody below him moved up a spot.

Haskins of Ripley jumped into the rankings at #8 ahead of Jordan having defeated him twice at the MSAC. It is true that Jordan defeated Haskins at WSAZ. There are multiple instances of wrestlers splitting matches. Generally, whoever has the most recent win gets the higher rank. "What have you done for me lately."

Bennett also moved up due to the fact that he defeated Haskins on Jan 28, thus it would be reasonable to rank Bennett ahead of Haskins. This is how he jumped 3 places - not because of what he did, but because of what someone he has recently defeated did.

Thus it was ranked Bennett #7, Haskins #8, and Jordan #9.

Byrd dropped to #10 having been defeated by Jordan at the MSAC.

The fly in the ointment here is that Jordan has defeated Bennett early in the season at the Superior Photo. Bennett has defeated Haskins, Haskins has recently defeated Jordan, and Jordan defeated Bennett early in the season This is like a 3-man Round Robin where each wrestler is 1-1. There are numerous instances of this scenerio scattered throughout the rankings. I have not figured out a good way to solve this conundrum. In this case, Bennett was ranked ahead of the other two based on most recent results.


Feb 2
Weight Class 132
1. Kaleb Creamer, Spring Valley
2. Hunter Burdette, Ripley
3. Jacob Smithson, Buckhannon Upshur
4. Mikey Shamblin, Parkersburg South
5. Bo Moler, Parkersburg High
6. Isaac Isabell, George Washington
7. Taylor Hutchison, Huntington
8. Matt Blake, Cabell Midland
9. Oliver Lopez, Riverside
10. Braeden Pauley, University

Feb 9
Weight Class 132
1. Kaleb Creamer, Spring Valley
2. Hunter Burdette, Ripley
3. Jacob Smithson, Buckhannon Upshur
4. Mikey Shamblin, Parkersburg South
5. Bo Moler, Parkersburg High
6. Gabe Dempsey, Huntington
7. Isaac Isabell, George Washington
8. Oliver Lopez, Riverside
9. Braeden Pauley, University
10. Max Camilletti, Brooke


In 132, Hutchison was taken out of the rankings since Dempsey was Huntington's entry at MSAC. Dempsey split matches with Isabell, losing to him in the quarterfinals but defeating him in the finals for third (Dempsey finished 3rd, Isabell 4th). Thus, Dempsey comes into the rankings at #6 ahead of Isabell. Blake was removed because he has not been seen on the mat for some time. Lopez and Pauley moved to #8 and #9, and Camilletti comes in at #10.

The real fly in the ointment is East Fairmont's Cassucio. We all know of the many ranked wrestlers in both AAA and AA/A he has defeated and/or out performed in tournaments. Someday this problem will not longer be a problem.

[admin]

The real fly in the ointment is East Fairmont's Cassucio. We all know of the many ranked wrestlers in both AAA and AA/A he has defeated and/or out performed in tournaments. Someday this problem will not longer be a problem.

JV wrestlers:

Yes, it is unfortunate that there are some JV wrestlers who, if they were on a different team, would probably qualify for the states.

There are some teams who could enter practically a complete JV team, or maybe even two JV teams in the regional. Don't argue that it should be only "ranked" JV wrestlers or some such who are allowed to enter - every member of the team should be allowed to compete.

This notion that they would be "non-scorers" just doesn't wash. They would be eliminating wrestlers from other schools, preventing them from scoring, and thus are in fact scorers.

What you advocate is that a school may enter more than one team in the regional.

Shall the same rule apply to other sports? May Capital put two or three basketball teams on the court and enter them all in sectional/regional tournament play? I bet Martinsburg could come up with two football teams.

It seems that the WVSSAC is rather sticky in expecting that there should be only one team for a given sport at a given school.

If that is your position, then the solution is simple: Wrestling should withdraw from the WVSSAC.

Yes, just as Great Britain withdrew from the European Union to free themselves from all those silly rules ("Brexit"), the WV Wrestling community could withdraw from the WVSSAC ("Wrexit") and form their own organization, perhaps similar in structure to the WVYWA, or go under the auspices of AAU or some such.

Then wrestling powerhouses could enter as many teams as they wish.

And I nominate Bearhugger to be the commissioner of this new league.

[Bearhugger]

The real fly in the ointment is East Fairmont's Cassucio. We all know of the many ranked wrestlers in both AAA and AA/A he has defeated and/or out performed in tournaments. Someday this problem will not longer be a problem.

JV wrestlers:

Yes, it is unfortunate that there are some JV wrestlers who, if they were on a different team, would probably qualify for the states.

There are some teams who could enter practically a complete JV team, or maybe even two JV teams in the regional. Don't argue that it should be only "ranked" JV wrestlers or some such who are allowed to enter - every member of the team should be allowed to compete.

This notion that they would be "non-scorers" just doesn't wash. They would be eliminating wrestlers from other schools, preventing them from scoring, and thus are in fact scorers.

What you advocate is that a school may enter more than one team in the regional.

Shall the same rule apply to other sports? May Capital put two or three basketball teams on the court and enter them all in sectional/regional tournament play? I bet Martinsburg could come up with two football teams.

It seems that the WVSSAC is rather sticky in expecting that there should be only one team for a given sport at a given school.

If that is your position, then the solution is simple: Wrestling should withdraw from the WVSSAC.

Yes, just as Great Britain withdrew from the European Union to free themselves from all those silly rules ("Brexit"), the WV Wrestling community could withdraw from the WVSSAC ("Wrexit") and form their own organization, perhaps similar in structure to the WVYWA, or go under the auspices of AAU or some such.

Then wrestling powerhouses could enter as many teams as they wish.

And I nominate Bearhugger to be the commissioner of this new league.

Thank you for the nomination.

However, lets look at the WSAZ. Many JV were entered. Yes, some of them did beat out other schools' varsity wrestlers. However, only a few JV placed.

I see wrestling as an individual sport first, team sport second. When wrestlers decide to move up or down in weight, most often they are doing it to enhance their individual efforts first.

[Tiger44001]

aaacoach89, I agree with you on your point about a A/A A vs AAA wrestler being ranked and winning against another ranked wrestler should count as a quality win no matter what the class is, hence the 160 pound example. I really question the 126 pound rankings with Bennet having been ranked 10th for the last 3 weeks (Jan 19 thru Feb 2) combined with a downward trend from a high of 7th on Jan 5, an 8th ranking on Jan 12th to the 3 week stay from Jan 19. Pauley is almost identical with his high of 5th on Jan5, drop to 8th on Jan 12, and a 3 week stay at 10 from Jan 19 to Feb 2. Then you have the jumps by both on the Feb 9 rankings, after the University/North Marion dual. The last weight class was 138, with Rohrbough from University being the wrestler. And upon further review on my part, I had seen the Jan 26 ranking of 7th., and I thought Feb 2 he was still 7th, and on Feb 8 he dropped to 9th. I did realize he had dropped 2 spots already on Feb 2 though. My mistake on that and should be taken out of the example.