Regional tournament

[scorpeo1]

So today at the regional tournament I was a little shocked by a couple things. First, the points system that was supposed to mean everything for the regional and state tournament didn't mean anything. A boy with 270 points got second seed to a boy with less points. When asked about it they said points are nothing more than a tie breaker. Second, there was a boy entered in the tournament that was not affiliated with a team in WV. The boy in question is affiliated with a team in PA. I can not say this is a better system when you are making this harder for the kids in this state. If the points don't mean anything when it comes to seeding the regional and state tournament why have points? If we are going to open the tournaments up to PA, OH, KY, VA, or any other state then we should drop this crappy system that has more cons than it has pros. There was nothing wrong with the system the way it was. I give the whole thing two thumbs down today.

[WrestlingMom2009]

Here's my question for you... So because a child trains at a facility outside of WV they are questioned and shouldn't be able to participate in regionals and states? Having regionals also gives More accurate seeding. They have to wrestle out their place and then be seeded accordingly... Instead of their parents sending in their record that they doctored up to get them where they needed to be or no record hoping to be unseeded and knock off some kids immediately... Which throws off brackets. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. We were informed since day one that points were for a top 100 leaderboard and that points would be used if there wasn't a clear seeding answer. I'm sorry you had mixed answers on that. Like someone said in a previous post the first year is always the toughest and I feel confident in the people involved in WVYWA working hard to make sure they try to address any issues to continue to grow and be better for the youth in WV. Maybe next year you can attend some meetings and such to voice your concerns and help make a difference in what goes on. I was aware of a few meetings held that involved coaches and others concerned from the entire state. In my opinion that's what is missing with how it has been ran in the past.

[matcoach90]

So today at the regional tournament I was a little shocked by a couple things. First, the points system that was supposed to mean everything thing for the regional and state tournament didn't mean anything. A boy with 270 points got second seed to a boy with less points. When asked about it they said points are nothing more than a tie breaker. Second, there was a boy entered in the tournament that was not affiliated with a team in WV. The boy in question is affiliated with a team in PA. I can not say this is a better system when you are making this harder for the kids in this state. If the points don't mean anything when it comes to seeding the regional and state tournament why have points? If we are going to open the tournaments up to PA, OH, KY, VA, or any other state then we should drop this crappy system that has more con than it has pros. There was nothing wrong with the system the way it was. I give the whole thing two thumbs down today.

Then why didn't you go to Parkersburg...?

[scorpeo1]

From the way was said in many post to this forum and on the wvywa site it is ok for a wrestler to compete in the tournament if not affiliated with a team. They need to live in WV and need to wrestle as an independent not as a part of a team outside the state. Your comment about kids from other states being able to compete for our state tournament is ludicrous!! Why don't you take your child to another states regional or state tournament and find out how quickly they send you home. As for the points I'm just saying if a kid wrestles in 6 or7 point qualifying tournaments and accumulates over a hundred more points than any other kid in his age and weight they should have first seed. The way it was said is record then points. So if that's so right then what is in place to keep track of the records for the kids. What is keeping and parent or coach from going to one qualifying tournament and saying their kid is undefeated just to get a higher seed in the regional tournament? At least with the points their is a record. That's what I'm saying about flaws! It is not fair to the kids that went to a number of the qualifying tournaments and accumulated more than anyone else.

[WP1992]

If you are worried about whether a wrestler is a 1 seed rather than a 2 seed you may have your priorities messed up. If you have 270 points for the WVYWA that would indicate to me that a particular child has spent nearly all of his time in WV, only seeing WV competition and wrestling the same kids over and over. Again, I would suggest a possible blur in what is important to the overall development of the wrestler. We are a family that lives in WV and wrestles for a club in PA. My son is proud of the club he represents and that is the team he registers under when he competes. He also spends a lot of his time wrestling in PA and Ohio because that is where the larger amount of competition is. There are great WV wrestlers but those states have much greater depth. So get out of your fish bowl, get a few losses and challenge you athlete to get better by seeing different types of competition, then the points won't matter.

[WrestlingMom2009]

If that was regards to me.. I never said an out of state wrestler should compete by all means. I was asking why it's not okay that a "WV WRESTLER" trains and is wrestling outside of WV... We wrestled three tournaments in wv this year the rest were Ohio and PA but are involved with a WV team however some kids we have traveled with wrestle with PA and OH teams yet reside in WV. When you live on the border of other states you can easily train with out of state teams. Iron Eagles for example is a reputable WV CLUB that trains kids from multiple states Maryland and PA as well as ground zero and Knights having Ohio kids. The club shouldn't matter where the child' attends school is what determines their eligibility. If that was your concern it should have been brought to attention immediately at the region tournament not on this forum.

[scorpeo1]

Ok you are all right! The points are useless and the kids don't have to be affiliated with a team in the state. Let's just make everything open to all states! That is what everyone wants! My kid has nothing to do with this situation and I don't even know the kid that this happened to. I just felt sorry for them because they worked so hard this season to earn points that when it comes down to it they were useless. What a great way to show support for the kids that work hard!

[RWWS]

Kids train in Ohio and Pennsyvania all of the time and they have wrestled not only at The regional tournaments but Jr States in the past as well. If the kids is a WV resident than he is eligible to compete in either WVYWA or Jr States.

[WrestlingMom2009]

I guess I am confused about opening it up to all states? The kid lives in WV yet wrestles for a PA team. He is not eligible for pa states because he is a ''WV RESIDENT ''... So he attends his regional. If the child worked hard for his points and then got the first seed and lost would that make the situation any better? I am not taking anything away from that child working hard for his points that shows he is a top placer amongst WV tournaments not that he is for sure the top wrestler in WV. I'm just not getting the actual issue. According to region 3 there were 4 wrestlers listed from pa teams ... All 4 wrestlers won their brackets. So obviously with or without the points in seeding they were the best wrestlers. I'm not sure if your just stuck on the idea of the specific kid being more skilled then the top points wrestler and that's bothersome to you... But there was no incident of letting kids wrestle that weren't wv residents.

[scorpeo1]

Ok so why have points qualifiers?

[WrestlingMom2009]

Points qualifiers was a way for kids to be one of the top 100 ... Similar to PA... On PYwrestling you can find a list of qualifying tourneys that give points and the list of the kids who have him. Also, if there wasn't a clear seed where kids have similar records or were 1-1 with each other they could look at points but from the beginning we were told it wasn't the make or break deal with seeding it was just something extra for the kids to say they've earned however many points. That's how I have always understood it. But going off the kids I know.... There's a lot of kids who have a lot of points but have lost head to head matches with kids who barely wrestle in pa or lost two kids which they have beat. Of course that should trump any and all points. No seeding is ever perfect... However with having to wrestle it out ... It helps eliminate the doctored records or no records. They have more of an idea what is coming into the brackets at states.

[scorpeo1]

That's what I'm saying hello!!! Why go off records and not the points system if everyone knows that a doctored record could give a higher seed? The points are a way to keep track of how well a child has wrestled all year. A parent or coach could see the flaw in the system and say a kid is 20-0 when the kid is really 0-20 just to get a higher seed. I'm all for wrestling out the bracket and who wis is who wins. I just don't understand why we have points if they are not being used constructively to seed kids fairly. Realistically if the kid in question has 270 points then they have won or placed in a number of qualifying tournaments. Which means they won most if not all the head to head match ups your talking about. I just think the points are a clearer way of placement than your doctored records.

[RWWS]

I would say that most of the coaches in each Region know the other kids within that region from other teams. During the regional seeding meeting they will seed according to criteria they have set for the region, in the event they can not come to a decision on a seed they will use the points and that will determine the seed.

[coach_williams]

Ok you are all right! The points are useless and the kids don't have to be affiliated with a team in the state. Let's just make everything open to all states! That is what everyone wants! My kid has nothing to do with this situation and I don't even know the kid that this happened to. I just felt sorry for them because they worked so hard this season to earn points that when it comes down to it they were useless. What a great way to show support for the kids that work hard!

I can't speak for the points issue, but the #1 deciding factor on resident eligibility is home address. If a kid trains all year in PA or OH, but lives in WV then he/she is eligible. What team you affiliate with is not the deciding factor. In the rules for WVYWA it clearly states that home address is the deciding factor and special consideration may be given to what school they attend in certain circumstances such as custody issues.

[scorpeo1]

[scorpeo1]

My understanding was that they are supposed to wrestle independent in that situation. I could care less where they train! What I'm saying is if they don't make them wrestle independent then your opening the door for out of state kids to wrestle at our regional and possibly state tournament which would make them open tournaments. I don't know why everyone can't see that and the points I'm trying to get across!

[RWWS]

What makes the difference if they wrestle independent or under a team? If he goes to a qualifying tournament to establish base weight, goes to a region and is a WV resident he's good to go. You are putting to much value on the point system. The points don't determine the best wrestlers. You accumulate points of the amount of WV participating tournaments you go to. A lot of clubs wrestle mostly outside of WV so they don't rack up a lot of points.

[mscoach6]

Just because a kid puts down he wrestles for an out of state club. Isn't opening the door for out of state kids. Also, did the kid that got the first seed wrestle the kid with 270 points earlier this year?

[WP1992]

Trust me, most of the people who wrestle for an out of state club team wish that they were able to live in and participate in that states state tournament, even if it is tougher.

[big2eers]

I don't know. Not trying to cause fireworks. But Maryland has two state championship and they are a mess. Not well managed from my understanding. One tournament has better talent vs the other.
I believe Va. has two State tournaments as well with the same situation.

[Wrestlerdad98]

Seems to me that there is a lot of open spots. Not going to have all the weight classes full like they thought. This whole think is splitting up the state and I think it is going to hurt the kids.

[matcoach90]

[quote="scorpeo1"]My understanding was that they are supposed to wrestle independent in that situation. I could care less where they train! What I'm saying is if they don't make them wrestle independent then your opening the door for out of state kids to wrestle at our regional and possibly state tournament which would make them open tournaments. I don't know why everyone can't see that and the points I'm trying to get across!

Probably because you aren't making any sense at all!!! What's so hard to understand about a kid who lives in WV that trains out of state, but wrestles in both states? Bottom line, if he lives here, he can wrestle in a regional and state tournament here. How in the hell does that open up the door for out of state kids signing up for our regional and states? We all know each other from many tournaments throughout the year. If an out of stater tries to get in, someone will know and call it out. Jeesh!

[Marion Co. Fan]

I'm curious, did the wrestler with 270 points win his bracket or the out of state "trained" wrestler?

[coach_williams]

My understanding was that they are supposed to wrestle independent in that situation. I could care less where they train! What I'm saying is if they don't make them wrestle independent then your opening the door for out of state kids to wrestle at our regional and possibly state tournament which would make them open tournaments. I don't know why everyone can't see that and the points I'm trying to get across!

I think everyone is missing your point because you don't have one. You must have a WV home address to compete in WVYWA regionals or the championship. How do you figure the door is open for wrestlers from out of state to come in and participate if they don't meet the address requirement?

Whether you wrestle under a team name or under independent is entirely irrelevant.

Example: My son wrestled for New Martinsville Middle School. We have a WV address. He also wrestled in open tournaments in PA. He was listed aa WVYWA regionals as independent. Now what?

Seems to me that there is a lot of open spots. Not going to have all the weight classes full like they thought. This whole think is splitting up the state and I think it is going to hurt the kids.

I didn't hear anyone say all brackets would be full. Simple reality is it is a tournament in it's first year so a lot of people didn't attend or didn't know about it. Also, from what I can tell, we are having an issue with diminished interest in the sport once the end of the official season ends. If the championships can manage 800-1000 wrestlers in it's first year then I would say that is a pretty doggone good turnout. Not many first year tournaments can boast those kinds of numbers.

[toeThe____]

Just to clarify any confusion on the Pa "affiliation". TOSS originated in Pa but now has a WV site that is registered through the WVYWA. Assuming that is the club you are referencing.

[eastontilt]

Plus TOSS is in many states, not just PA. It originated as a freestyle club and they also to folk style. I'm sorry, but if I want my kid to be the best wrestler he can be, I'm going to take him to the best clubs to train. Also, when your kid ends their season, these kiddos continue to attend the TOSS practices and work on freestyle. I can say that the points system is BS b/c if you ONLY wrestle the tournaments that give you points. If this is your mindset, you are not challenging your child. You want to see how your child measures up, take them to some of the PA tournaments. Trinity Hiller Classic, Erie Battle on the Bay, the Youth Powerade Tournament are just a few that will challenge your kid. I have to agree with everyone else. IF you live in THIS state, who cares where you TRAIN. If you want your child to never be challenged than it's your choice, but don't complain if they get beat. It's wrestling for goodness sakes not a game of go fish!

[wrestle23]

I don't think the seeding and regional bracket should be done by a coach of a team in that region. The information (detailed record, and accumulated points) should be sent in with the entry form to a board member and seeding should be done by them. It was very obvious that the bracket in our regional tournament was not based off of records or points. It seemed very biased.

[scorpeo1]

I wasn't referencing Toss nor have I ever heard of Toss! I don't even see any Toss kids in the regional brackets I'm looking at. You must be in a different region. In addition I don't have any kids wrestling I was watching a friends kids wrestle and he was talking about these points and this organization just forming. I decided to get on the website and look at past comments on this form and I'm going off the replys from I'm guessing members of the organization. My point is I watched a number of tournaments last year and a number this year. If this organization is going to use points then use points not records that may or may not be accurate. If this is to promote the sport in the state of WV then make it about the kids of WV! If you want to promote the sport in the state then promote the tournaments in the state. Make them mean something more than just making a qualifying weight.

[scorpeo1]

Just to clarify any confusion on the Pa "affiliation". TOSS originated in Pa but now has a WV site that is registered through the WVYWA. Assuming that is the club you are referencing.

Not referencing Toss nor have I ever heard of Toss. What region is Toss in? I don't see them listed on wvywa website.

[Bryansdad]

I wasn't referencing Toss nor have I ever heard of Toss! I don't even see any Toss kids in the regional brackets I'm looking at. You must be in a different region. In addition I don't have any kids wrestling I was watching a friends kids wrestle and he was talking about these points and this organization just forming. I decided to get on the website and look at past comments on this form and I'm going off the replys from I'm guessing members of the organization. My point is I watched a number of tournaments last year and a number this year. If this organization is going to use points then use points not records that may or may not be accurate. If this is to promote the sport in the state of WV then make it about the kids of WV! If you want to promote the sport in the state then promote the tournaments in the state. Make them mean something more than just making a qualifying weight.

The Toss that I've seen wrestle in region two. Who cares where anyone wrestles? I do agree that the points should mean something if they go to qualifying tournaments and earn them. My son has never been a number one seed but he wrestles the bracket. He finishes where he finishes and I'm proud of him regardless of what place he comes in as long as he gives every match his all and has fun. So please stop all the bickering and think about the kids and what is best for them. Let's see how this state tournament plays out and post comments about how to make the sport better and more competitive in this state! Good luck to all!