Tough call on Concussions

[aaacoach89]

Just as I suspected, the situation of a wrestler being allowed to continue wrestling after clearly exhibiting symptoms of being concussed happened ay at Regionals. The kid had to actually be helped to his feet, could not stand on his own, was clearly dazed, and the match was stopped twice as a result. Trainers came out, and allowed the match to continue. I am confused....there was an obvious collision or contact to the head. The kid clearly exhibits signs and symptoms of being concussed, but yet is allowed to continue. The rule book says the contestant will be removed from competition until he is cleared by an appropriate health care professional.

“ART. 4 . . . Any contestant who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion “such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the match and shall not return to competition until cleared by an appropriate health-care professional.”

Excerpt From
2018-19 NFHS Wrestling Rules Book

It seems like the rule book is pretty cut and dry. I am sure no official or coach wants to be the one responsible for making the call that ends a kids season, possibly high school career...but isn’t that our responsibility? Protect the kid or competitor from long term injury? I am not sitting in some ivory tower. Per my previous post I have been in the situation and made the WRONG call. I have since done the research, and take the same annual certification all other coaches are supposed to take. These head injuries are serious, and if we continue to err on the side of being “tough” or “a man”, we are open to hurting a kid long term or even being sued when things go wrong. I am not judging anyone, just think we need to be better.

[Cummings]

This topic reminded me of a conversation from years ago. I was coaching football and the discussion concerned a senior and concussions.

One coach stated, he didn't know how he could live with himself if he denied his son the chance to play football.

Another much older and wiser coach responded. He said, "If it were my son I would not allow him to play. He can be mad at me the rest of his long healthy life and it won't bother me a bit."

It is a tough call when it comes to student athletes and injuries. Good luck and congratulations to all state tournament qualifiers, coaches, and officials.

[Truesouthfaninhunt]

Just as I suspected, the situation of a wrestler being allowed to continue wrestling after clearly exhibiting symptoms of being concussed happened ay at Regionals. The kid had to actually be helped to his feet, could not stand on his own, was clearly dazed, and the match was stopped twice as a result. Trainers came out, and allowed the match to continue. I am confused....there was an obvious collision or contact to the head. The kid clearly exhibits signs and symptoms of being concussed, but yet is allowed to continue. The rule book says the contestant will be removed from competition until he is cleared by an appropriate health care professional.

“ART. 4 . . . Any contestant who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion “such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the match and shall not return to competition until cleared by an appropriate health-care professional.”

Excerpt From
2018-19 NFHS Wrestling Rules Book

It seems like the rule book is pretty cut and dry. I am sure no official or coach wants to be the one responsible for making the call that ends a kids season, possibly high school career...but isn’t that our responsibility? Protect the kid or competitor from long term injury? I am not sitting in some ivory tower. Per my previous post I have been in the situation and made the WRONG call. I have since done the research, and take the same annual certification all other coaches are supposed to take. These head injuries are serious, and if we continue to err on the side of being “tough” or “a man”, we are open to hurting a kid long term or even being sued when things go wrong. I am not judging anyone, just think we need to be better.

I think I witnessed the same match in which you are referring.. however its kinda tough to evaluate one’s neurological status unless you were the person conducting the exam and had the necessary training. But no offense.

[JustSomeone]

Just as I suspected, the situation of a wrestler being allowed to continue wrestling after clearly exhibiting symptoms of being concussed happened ay at Regionals. The kid had to actually be helped to his feet, could not stand on his own, was clearly dazed, and the match was stopped twice as a result. Trainers came out, and allowed the match to continue. I am confused....there was an obvious collision or contact to the head. The kid clearly exhibits signs and symptoms of being concussed, but yet is allowed to continue. The rule book says the contestant will be removed from competition until he is cleared by an appropriate health care professional.

“ART. 4 . . . Any contestant who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion “such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the match and shall not return to competition until cleared by an appropriate health-care professional.”

Excerpt From
2018-19 NFHS Wrestling Rules Book

It seems like the rule book is pretty cut and dry. I am sure no official or coach wants to be the one responsible for making the call that ends a kids season, possibly high school career...but isn’t that our responsibility? Protect the kid or competitor from long term injury? I am not sitting in some ivory tower. Per my previous post I have been in the situation and made the WRONG call. I have since done the research, and take the same annual certification all other coaches are supposed to take. These head injuries are serious, and if we continue to err on the side of being “tough” or “a man”, we are open to hurting a kid long term or even being sued when things go wrong. I am not judging anyone, just think we need to be better.

If i witnessed the same incident, both times medical staff came out onto the mat (there were 3 of them both times), and determined the wrestler was not concussed. The match was stopped the second time for a bloody nose, which i think even the toughest of grown men act a little funky when they get a good bop on the nose, doesn't mean its a concussion. The training staff on hand determined the wrestler was not concussed and could continue. This is a non-issue.

[aaacoach89]

To those that responded, I don't take any offense at all. My post was not calling anyone person out or saying that I was better than anyone. I was pretty clear that I had been in that situation in the past and made the wrong call. I am pretty sure that athletes take a baseline test at the beginning of the year, so that if there is a head injury they retake it and based on the scoring it will show if they are likely to have been concussed. I am also pretty sure that the training staff have a written exam that is given to people who have possibly been concussed to check memory and reasoning, based on the score of that exam they can determine if they are likely to have been concussed. Neither of those took place. What did take place was some questioning, and then a horizontal gaze and nystagmus test. This test checks for constriction or blown out pupils, equal tracking, and nystagmus of the eyes....these things indicate impairment and are best used when determining whether someone has been using illicit substances. I am a first responder that deals with people involved in those situations and also those that have suffered head trauma during car wrecks and a variety of other situations. I truly believe that none of the trainers, coaches, or officials would WANT to put a kid in harms way, or WANT to hurt a kid. I was just making the point that it is impossible to determine the severity of a head injury on matside within 5 minutes. I was stating that it is my belief to err on the side of caution and use some more extensive examination to make sure the kid is not concussed. In the situation I was involved with, the trainer said my son was okay to compete. When he was examined after the incident off site and by a doctor, he had suffered a major concussion and was not right for competition for several weeks, and based on his feedback didn't feel like he wasn't foggy for several months. I take no offense and mean no offense. I am just respectfully disagreeing that it is a non issue. Anytime we are talking about head trauma and kids, it's an issue, and we as coaches, officials, parents, and trainers need to seek ways to be better.

[KDunbar]

To those that responded, I don't take any offense at all. My post was not calling anyone person out or saying that I was better than anyone. I was pretty clear that I had been in that situation in the past and made the wrong call. I am pretty sure that athletes take a baseline test at the beginning of the year, so that if there is a head injury they retake it and based on the scoring it will show if they are likely to have been concussed. I am also pretty sure that the training staff have a written exam that is given to people who have possibly been concussed to check memory and reasoning, based on the score of that exam they can determine if they are likely to have been concussed. Neither of those took place. What did take place was some questioning, and then a horizontal gaze and nystagmus test. This test checks for constriction or blown out pupils, equal tracking, and nystagmus of the eyes....these things indicate impairment and are best used when determining whether someone has been using illicit substances. I am a first responder that deals with people involved in those situations and also those that have suffered head trauma during car wrecks and a variety of other situations. I truly believe that none of the trainers, coaches, or officials would WANT to put a kid in harms way, or WANT to hurt a kid. I was just making the point that it is impossible to determine the severity of a head injury on matside within 5 minutes. I was stating that it is my belief to err on the side of caution and use some more extensive examination to make sure the kid is not concussed. In the situation I was involved with, the trainer said my son was okay to compete. When he was examined after the incident off site and by a doctor, he had suffered a major concussion and was not right for competition for several weeks, and based on his feedback didn't feel like he wasn't foggy for several months. I take no offense and mean no offense. I am just respectfully disagreeing that it is a non issue. Anytime we are talking about head trauma and kids, it's an issue, and we as coaches, officials, parents, and trainers need to seek ways to be better.

It seems to me you have made a few points that you feel strongly about.
1)the importance of the concussion issue.
2)the proper ways to evaluate it.
3)your admission to have made an error in judgement on the issue in the past (I presume you had the training and expertise at the time of that error)
4)your observation (in your initial post) of the recent match to which you refer and your definite opinion from your observation, using your expertise, that the wrestler involved was clearly concussed and that could not be refuted in the 2 minute injury time at matside. It's okay to say it. You said it. Just stick to your guns or don't bother saying it.

[aaacoach89]

It seems to me you have made a few points that you feel strongly about.
1)the importance of the concussion issue.
2)the proper ways to evaluate it.
3)your admission to have made an error in judgement on the issue in the past (I presume you had the training and expertise at the time of that error)
4)your observation (in your initial post) of the recent match to which you refer and your definite opinion from your observation, using your expertise, that the wrestler involved was clearly concussed and that could not be refuted in the 2 minute injury time at matside. It's okay to say it. You said it. Just stick to your guns or don't bother saying it.[/quote]


You are correct, I do feel strongly about a few points. Points 1 and 2 are correct. Point 3 is partly correct. I had my job training at the time of the incident, since my err in judgement I have done more research about concussions how serious they really are, and I have tried to educate myself on how to deal with the emotional side of the issue when coaching a kid or being personally attached to the outcome. I would think anyone who deals with kids would be constantly trying to improve on the areas they need to work on. Point 4 doesn't seem like much of a point, other than I disagree with how the situation was handled. That is correct. I said it, guns stuck to, that's why I bothered to say it. It doesn't mean however, that I think those that made the decision had any malicious intent, didn't care about the kid, or anything like that. Just think it was something that needs more focus and education. I don't see how learning more about a serious topic and improving how we deal with situations in the future is a bad thing, I just thought that was growth.

[mscoach4]

The official WVSSAC motto concerning concussions for coaches is "When in Doubt Sit Them Out"

[JustSomeone]

It seems to me you have made a few points that you feel strongly about.
1)the importance of the concussion issue.
2)the proper ways to evaluate it.
3)your admission to have made an error in judgement on the issue in the past (I presume you had the training and expertise at the time of that error)
4)your observation (in your initial post) of the recent match to which you refer and your definite opinion from your observation, using your expertise, that the wrestler involved was clearly concussed and that could not be refuted in the 2 minute injury time at matside. It's okay to say it. You said it. Just stick to your guns or don't bother saying it.

You are correct, I do feel strongly about a few points. Points 1 and 2 are correct. Point 3 is partly correct. I had my job training at the time of the incident, since my err in judgement I have done more research about concussions how serious they really are, and I have tried to educate myself on how to deal with the emotional side of the issue when coaching a kid or being personally attached to the outcome. I would think anyone who deals with kids would be constantly trying to improve on the areas they need to work on. Point 4 doesn't seem like much of a point, other than I disagree with how the situation was handled. That is correct. I said it, guns stuck to, that's why I bothered to say it. It doesn't mean however, that I think those that made the decision had any malicious intent, didn't care about the kid, or anything like that. Just think it was something that needs more focus and education. I don't see how learning more about a serious topic and improving how we deal with situations in the future is a bad thing, I just thought that was growth.[/quote]


I hope my comment did not come across as meaning that concussions is not a serious issue, as it clearly is. My comment was more to say the issue about the wrestler in question (if we are even talking about the same match) was a non issue because trained medical personnel evaluated the wrestler and deemed him fit to continue. Us coaches can take those hour long courses and learn about concussions, but i am not in the medical field. It would be different if as a coach we are the only ones available to diagnose it, but who am i to go against what a trained professional says? If medical staff on hand says a wrestler is ok, then they are ok.