Change Rules on Dual Meets Counting as Weigh Ins

[IndyHart]

There has been a lot of discussion about ways to increase the number of wrestlers we have out every year, including ways we could change the rules to increase participation. I had a chance to talk to Coach Sarrett from Woodrow Wilson, who is on the rules committee, about it last night at the Raleigh County Middle School Championships. Two of the things that we both agreed about is that wrestling competitions take way too long for the average fan, and that more dual meets would be good for the sport.

There are a lot of reasons I love dual meets. The main reason is that competitive dual meets make every single wrestler in the lineup important. If you had asked people before the Indy-East Fairmont dual who was going to be the hero, I doubt many people would have named Grant Posthlewait. But he hit a big throw and got a pin in a match that he was way behind in to seal the dual for East. Every wrestler and every point is important in a dual. That's one of the most important lessons for wrestlers to learn. You have to fight for every single point, regardless of the score. The other reason I love dual meets is that they don't take that long. So causal fans can show up for a couple hours and fall in love with our sport.

Change the rules to allow teams to wrestle one dual (or tri) per week without it counting as a weigh in. This is a really easy way to generate excitement about wrestling. It's also a pretty easy way to raise some money. We don't wrestle any of the other teams in Raleigh County in a dual because nobody can afford to use a weigh in on a single dual. We are losing a lot of money that would support our programs because we aren't able to wrestle those matches. We also miss a chance for our local papers to talk about our programs.

Coaches, talk to your principles and other coaches who are on the rules committee about changing the rules about the way we count dual meets. It's probably the easiest change we could make to increase wrestling participation in the short term.

[Frank]

I agree completely and then some.

[Repoman1304]

There has been a lot of discussion about ways to increase the number of wrestlers we have out every year, including ways we could change the rules to increase participation. I had a chance to talk to Coach Sarrett from Woodrow Wilson, who is on the rules committee, about it last night at the Raleigh County Middle School Championships. Two of the things that we both agreed about is that wrestling competitions take way too long for the average fan, and that more dual meets would be good for the sport.

There are a lot of reasons I love dual meets. The main reason is that competitive dual meets make every single wrestler in the lineup important. If you had asked people before the Indy-East Fairmont dual who was going to be the hero, I doubt many people would have named Grant Posthlewait. But he hit a big throw and got a pin in a match that he was way behind in to seal the dual for East. Every wrestler and every point is important in a dual. That's one of the most important lessons for wrestlers to learn. You have to fight for every single point, regardless of the score. The other reason I love dual meets is that they don't take that long. So causal fans can show up for a couple hours and fall in love with our sport.

Change the rules to allow teams to wrestle one dual (or tri) per week without it counting as a weigh in. This is a really easy way to generate excitement about wrestling. It's also a pretty easy way to raise some money. We don't wrestle any of the other teams in Raleigh County in a dual because nobody can afford to use a weigh in on a single dual. We are losing a lot of money that would support our programs because we aren't able to wrestle those matches. We also miss a chance for our local papers to talk about our programs.

Coaches, talk to your principles and other coaches who are on the rules committee about changing the rules about the way we count dual meets. It's probably the easiest change we could make to increase wrestling participation in the short term.

Great Idea

[Matofficial]

I disagree with you. I think we have enough weigh in points as it is. I think if you did that the better teams would try to wrestle at least one every week. Then the teams that couldn't afford to do that would complain that it was unfair. Maybe wrestle better teams to make your team better and be more selective as to what tournaments to go to with respect to improving your team.

[Bearhugger]

I disagree with you. I think we have enough weigh in points as it is. I think if you did that the better teams would try to wrestle at least one every week. Then the teams that couldn't afford to do that would complain that it was unfair. Maybe wrestle better teams to make your team better and be more selective as to what tournaments to go to with respect to improving your team.

I reread IndyHart's post. I didn't see where the intent of the rule change was to improve their team. It was to increase participation.

[Frank]

I disagree with you. I think we have enough weigh in points as it is. I think if you did that the better teams would try to wrestle at least one every week. Then the teams that couldn't afford to do that would complain that it was unfair. Maybe wrestle better teams to make your team better and be more selective as to what tournaments to go to with respect to improving your team.

I reread IndyHart's post. I didn't see where the intent of the rule change was to improve their team. It was to increase participation.

Plus it would be another pay check for matt officials .

[Frank]

If your a coach and don't think wrestling a weekly or bye weekly duel is bennificial to your program, then you don t have to schedule a duel. But to those coaches that see it as bennifical to their programs, they wouldn't be wasting a weigh in on one match. Besides according to bearhugger the average duel only produces 9 matches once all the forfeits come into play.

[aacoach15]

I'm all for finding a way to get more dual meets on the schedule because of the excitement they do bring in a shorter period of time. The major problem I see is that the higher ups will claim these kids are being forced to make weight too many times in a season. I'm pretty sure Ohio had changed the point scale for dual meets to a 1/2 of point so that could be a possibility for WV to think about.

[mike.carman]

The way to get more participation is to develop good, enthusiastic youth programs. Dual meets should start at the youth level. We should have youth clubs creating dual teams and wrestling other youth clubs or attending dual tournaments. We were introduced to this when my oldest was in youth club wrestling. It was fun, exciting and didn't take as long as the traditional open tournament.

With that said, it is difficult for the High School parents and coaches to stay involved in youth wrestling. I have always looked at the sport of wrestling as more of a family and a community. The coaches can't be involved because of SSAC rules and parents are "too busy" once their kids hit High School. In any case, I have seen way too many kids who love competing in wrestling, walk away from the sport because mom and/or dad don't want to spend that much time in a gym on a Saturday, because that is all they know from youth wrestling, or someone who they have been working with moves on and leaves them behind. I don't know that changing the weigh in rule to accommodate dual meets is the answer, but I do know changing the rules that govern how, who and when coaches can work with kids, in any sport, will help grow and keep interest.

Just my opinion.

[Sally]

Great post IndyHart, I agree.

I went to a Coach's clinic at Edinboro in 2011 and Dan Gable was the main speaker. Gable and Baumgartner both warned coaches about the decline in participation due to length of tournaments. We are inadvertently pushing parents and kids from wrestling because of long days and nights. Unnecessary breaks are also a problem.
Sounds like the coaches association could propose a rule modification concerning number of weigh ins or how they are counted. We could keep 18 weigh ins and simply make duals worth 1/2 weigh in. If possible it would be great to keep people updated on this as months pass by.

[coach_williams]

I highly respect the coaching staff at Edinboro, but I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment. Basketball leagues have tournaments that last all day for several days in a row and I don't see basketball's numbers declining. At our former middle school the different sports teams took turns working the concession stand during the middle school tournament and, if memory serves me correctly, it lasted for 3 or 4 days.

I keep saying this, but I think everyone doesn't believe me. We are seeing wrestling numbers decline just like every other sport. Looking back on my high school years, our marching band at Greenbrier East was somewhere around 70-80 kids, now it is more like 35. Our cheerleading squad was something like 18-20 girls and they turned away numerous others that wanted to be a part of the squad, now it is more like 10. Even the football team has taken a hit, but nobody realizes it. Now the team is 54, which looks comparable to the team size from 30 years ago, but back then we had 60-65 kids and the coach would cut 15 or 20. Now everyone who wants to play football is on the team, no cuts.

This is not some weird anomaly. A report just came out last week from the WVDE predicting a decline in student population between 2000 and 8000 students for next year. People are leaving our state and they are taking their kids with them. You can not take an average of 40-160 students out of every county per year and not see a decline in athletic participation over time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the original subject...

The WVSSAC already allows two scrimmages per year, so I am not sure how adding an occasional dual or tri during the week adds much to the sport. I don't dislike the idea, I am just not sure how it helps. I envision parents complaining about having to come pick up their kid during the week, complaining about them wrestling on a school night and then on the weekends too...blah, blah, blah. Then there is the conflict with basketball, because using the gym one night per week either disrupts their practice schedule or disrupts their game plans. Sounds like a lot of headache to me.

I am game for anything that helps the sport, and if that would help then I am all for it.

[aacoach70]

I agree that the current system is not conducive to duals or tris. Numbers are down, so it is more difficult to schedule a competitive dual or tri. Most teams will schedule a quad at a minimum because it counts as the same single weigh-in and you get more bang for your buck. Lack of duals/tris could be a reason for low support/participation. I have thought recently about how wrestling has evolved into a game of big 2-day tournaments. These require a time commitment by parents and athletes over consecutive weekends. Entry fees are getting crazy. More officials are needed and their cost is increasing. Facilities are used that can hold 5 or more mats and can facilitate 20 or more teams and their followers, which often means they can't even occur in a school- armories or civic arenas of some sort are necessary. Teams must arrange for hotel accommodations. School systems and administrations have to agree to allow it. Not that tournaments are bad. That's not what I'm saying. I just wonder if there will be a saturation point when the rules change or some programs come up with alternatives to revert back to more duals and tris. I wonder if you told kids you won't have to give up every single weekend for the next 3 months because we wrestle mostly short matches during the week, if that would increase participation. I understand about commitment. I'm not suggesting we cater to those that lack it. I'm only asking. Is wrestling going to continue in this direction, and how much longer can it? Currently we can count 18 weigh-ins exclusive of regional and state. If there were no limit on number of weigh-ins, and as long as we had a starting date and ending date, as we do now, how much more wrestling do you think teams would do? We couldn't add any more tournaments, but we'd likely try to squeeze in a few more duals/tris and be able to host more matches without feeling like we are sacrificing weigh-ins.
Just some things to ponder.

[Hard Head]

I highly respect the coaching staff at Edinboro, but I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment. Basketball leagues have tournaments that last all day for several days in a row and I don't see basketball's numbers declining. At our former middle school the different sports teams took turns working the concession stand during the middle school tournament and, if memory serves me correctly, it lasted for 3 or 4 days.

I keep saying this, but I think everyone doesn't believe me. We are seeing wrestling numbers decline just like every other sport. Looking back on my high school years, our marching band at Greenbrier East was somewhere around 70-80 kids, now it is more like 35. Our cheerleading squad was something like 18-20 girls and they turned away numerous others that wanted to be a part of the squad, now it is more like 10. Even the football team has taken a hit, but nobody realizes it. Now the team is 54, which looks comparable to the team size from 30 years ago, but back then we had 60-65 kids and the coach would cut 15 or 20. Now everyone who wants to play football is on the team, no cuts.

This is not some weird anomaly. A report just came out last week from the WVDE predicting a decline in student population between 2000 and 8000 students for next year. People are leaving our state and they are taking their kids with them. You can not take an average of 40-160 students out of every county per year and not see a decline in athletic participation over time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the original subject...

The WVSSAC already allows two scrimmages per year, so I am not sure how adding an occasional dual or tri during the week adds much to the sport. I don't dislike the idea, I am just not sure how it helps. I envision parents complaining about having to come pick up their kid during the week, complaining about them wrestling on a school night and then on the weekends too...blah, blah, blah. Then there is the conflict with basketball, because using the gym one night per week either disrupts their practice schedule or disrupts their game plans. Sounds like a lot of headache to me.

I am game for anything that helps the sport, and if that would help then I am all for it.

Terrific post! I, too, am game for anything that will help the sport!

[Matofficial]

Bearhugger, If you improve your team you might get more participation. We have trouble scheduling duals as it is. We ( South ) were told on more than one occasion this year by teams that they didn't think their team would have enough rest in between certain matches in order to schedule us. So I don't think that more weekly matches is the answer. I think that Mr Carman has the right idea, start at the youth level.

[coach_williams]

Bearhugger, If you improve your team you might get more participation. We have trouble scheduling duals as it is. We ( South ) were told on more than one occasion this year by teams that they didn't think their team would have enough rest in between certain matches in order to schedule us. So I don't think that more weekly matches is the answer. I think that Mr Carman has the right idea, start at the youth level.

I agree that rest time is prohibitive. So is the expense of paying for a bus driver twice a week. There are a lot of factors that impact having a dual or tri during the week.

[mscoach64]

my opinion is exactly that of the original post. duals and tri's would be a great way to expand the importance of each wrestler. as a parent of a wrestler, it is very difficult to sit all day at a tourney to watch him wrestle 3-4 times. as far as expense, it would not be any different as paying for multiple softball, baseball, cross country, basketball, etc throughout the week. The more you wrestle the better you get.

at first, the real only issue i can see is that many teams will take multiple years to finally get that full roster. so, teams would lose a lot more (which hopefully wouldnt add to the low numbers). Also, injuries would increase. But, that happens in all sports where you have more events.

i would offer that a good suggestion would be that weekday duals become a base +3 minimum. Maybe that would help. All that would need to happen to implement this idea would be to add to the number of weigh ins as opposed to eliminating the weigh in.

Ive said for years that the upper weights (170's-HW) that there should be another class. Example 168, 177, 186, 205, 220, and HW.

[forthekids]

Here is my take. I agree with Indy Hart on more duals. But I think duals should be a 1/2 point on weigh ins and required to wrestle 6 duals a year. Then in reality you are only giving up quad or duals tournament (the downfall of the sport in my opinion) and everything else he said is dead on. I can tell you in my 50 years on being around the sport some of my fondest memories when I wrestled was heated duals. The atmosphere is so different at them. East/Indy was great. South/PHS. North Marion/ Fairmont Senior at 5th street gym, Oak Glen/ East Liverpool, Brooke/John Marshall ...... I could go on and on. Also think one of those should be in front of student body. Just my take that wants the sport to thrive long after I am done. GREATEST SPORT ON EARTH!

[Gator]

To qualify for the OVAC dual championship, members are required to wrestle 3 teams in conference in a dual match. South cannot get 3 teams in the conference to schedule them thus eliminating them from the dual championships. I think someone in charge of the OVAC needs to ensure that 3 teams are on the schedule of every OVAC school, not just the ones they pick and choose.

[Bearhugger]

Bearhugger, If you improve your team you might get more participation. We have trouble scheduling duals as it is. We ( South ) were told on more than one occasion this year by teams that they didn't think their team would have enough rest in between certain matches in order to schedule us. So I don't think that more weekly matches is the answer. I think that Mr Carman has the right idea, start at the youth level.

South has trouble scheduling duals/tris because most WV teams know it is a waste of time. They load up, travel to South, forfeit half of the weight classes and then take a tail kicking in almost all of the other wight classes. The scores collaborate this.

No wrestler "improves" by traveling two hours to only get pinned in 33 seconds. If anything, this destroys the wrestler's mindset and makes him/her re-evaluate if wrestling is worth it.

Yes, a youth program is needed and so is a middle school program.

South has a great culture, great youth programs and great middle school programs. Due to these attributes, South has become a separate "animal" in WV wrestling. It is the masses (other teams), that are struggling. The "fixes" need to work for the masses. There is no change that could happen that will be detrimental to South's program.

[MaleMatMaid]

Bearhugger, If you improve your team you might get more participation. We have trouble scheduling duals as it is. We ( South ) were told on more than one occasion this year by teams that they didn't think their team would have enough rest in between certain matches in order to schedule us. So I don't think that more weekly matches is the answer. I think that Mr Carman has the right idea, start at the youth level.

South has trouble scheduling duals/tris because most WV teams know it is a waste of time. They load up, travel to South, forfeit half of the weight classes and then take a tail kicking in almost all of the other wight classes. The scores collaborate this.

No wrestler "improves" by traveling two hours to only get pinned in 33 seconds. If anything, this destroys the wrestler's mindset and makes him/her re-evaluate if wrestling is worth it.

Yes, a youth program is needed and so is a middle school program.

South has a great culture, great youth programs and great middle school programs. Due to these attributes, South has become a separate "animal" in WV wrestling. It is the masses (other teams), that are struggling. The "fixes" need to work for the masses. There is no change that could happen that will be detrimental to South's program.

So what is your suggestion then? It sounds as though you are reiterating what most teams already do now, which is avoid wrestling South. South is good year after year and they schedule teams such as St. Ed, Wadsworth, etc. regardless. They are not afraid of getting beat because it shows their kids and coaches where they are at in comparison to some of the top teams in Ohio. More or less you are saying that teams in WV should continue to not schedule South because they get beat badly, and in turn it prevents South from having home matches or any dual matches for that matter.

[Bearhugger]

Bearhugger, If you improve your team you might get more participation. We have trouble scheduling duals as it is. We ( South ) were told on more than one occasion this year by teams that they didn't think their team would have enough rest in between certain matches in order to schedule us. So I don't think that more weekly matches is the answer. I think that Mr Carman has the right idea, start at the youth level.

South has trouble scheduling duals/tris because most WV teams know it is a waste of time. They load up, travel to South, forfeit half of the weight classes and then take a tail kicking in almost all of the other wight classes. The scores collaborate this.

No wrestler "improves" by traveling two hours to only get pinned in 33 seconds. If anything, this destroys the wrestler's mindset and makes him/her re-evaluate if wrestling is worth it.

Yes, a youth program is needed and so is a middle school program.

South has a great culture, great youth programs and great middle school programs. Due to these attributes, South has become a separate "animal" in WV wrestling. It is the masses (other teams), that are struggling. The "fixes" need to work for the masses. There is no change that could happen that will be detrimental to South's program.

So what is your suggestion then? It sounds as though you are reiterating what most teams already do now, which is avoid wrestling South. South is good year after year and they schedule teams such as St. Ed, Wadsworth, etc. regardless. They are not afraid of getting beat because it shows their kids and coaches where they are at in comparison to some of the top teams in Ohio. More or less you are saying that teams in WV should continue to not schedule South because they get beat badly, and in turn it prevents South from having home matches or any dual matches for that matter.

I simply provided my opinion as to why South has trouble getting teams to come have a dual with them.

As for a suggestion, I would recommend that South and any other top team look over who the other top teams are. Contact them today to schedule a dual/tri/quad for next season.

Currently, South and East Faimont do not dual each other. I am sure both schools want that match. EF has a lot due back next season. South loses a lot to graduation. I would travel to see this.

[Sally]

The suggestion was based on increasing participation in the sport. More weekly duals might create better participation and excitement in the community. The peewee and middle school programs are also a large part of the Success equation.
Coaches control their schedules and I think making a dual worth 1/2 weigh in would encourage them to schedule more (duals). Cutting back on 2 day grinder tournaments would probably help kids stay with the sport. This could also save money on travel, food, hotels. We all want the best teams matching up somewhere, sometime during the season.
Teams who enter into a dual might consider a 2 year agreement. Some schools are willing to host the dual but not return the favor the next season. This might also help the money hungry athletic directors or principals see the reason for gym usage.

Whatever increases participation I support.

[mattman]

I highly respect the coaching staff at Edinboro, but I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment. Basketball leagues have tournaments that last all day for several days in a row and I don't see basketball's numbers declining. At our former middle school the different sports teams took turns working the concession stand during the middle school tournament and, if memory serves me correctly, it lasted for 3 or 4 days.

I keep saying this, but I think everyone doesn't believe me. We are seeing wrestling numbers decline just like every other sport. Looking back on my high school years, our marching band at Greenbrier East was somewhere around 70-80 kids, now it is more like 35. Our cheerleading squad was something like 18-20 girls and they turned away numerous others that wanted to be a part of the squad, now it is more like 10. Even the football team has taken a hit, but nobody realizes it. Now the team is 54, which looks comparable to the team size from 30 years ago, but back then we had 60-65 kids and the coach would cut 15 or 20. Now everyone who wants to play football is on the team, no cuts.

This is not some weird anomaly. A report just came out last week from the WVDE predicting a decline in student population between 2000 and 8000 students for next year. People are leaving our state and they are taking their kids with them. You can not take an average of 40-160 students out of every county per year and not see a decline in athletic participation over time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the original subject...

The WVSSAC already allows two scrimmages per year, so I am not sure how adding an occasional dual or tri during the week adds much to the sport. I don't dislike the idea, I am just not sure how it helps. I envision parents complaining about having to come pick up their kid during the week, complaining about them wrestling on a school night and then on the weekends too...blah, blah, blah. Then there is the conflict with basketball, because using the gym one night per week either disrupts their practice schedule or disrupts their game plans. Sounds like a lot of headache to me.

I am game for anything that helps the sport, and if that would help then I am all for it.

coach basketball is a game. Kids that aren't any good would play ball all day because it's fun. Wrestling on the other hand is a grind! Only the mentally tough and strong survive. The fact is wrestling is just too hard for these lazy kids nowadays. I have stomped out a few play station and X boxes in my day. I tell them go climb a dam tree or something. Get off the video games and cel phones!

[Gator]

mattman! That is the truth!

[Frank]

I highly respect the coaching staff at Edinboro, but I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment. Basketball leagues have tournaments that last all day for several days in a row and I don't see basketball's numbers declining. At our former middle school the different sports teams took turns working the concession stand during the middle school tournament and, if memory serves me correctly, it lasted for 3 or 4 days.

I keep saying this, but I think everyone doesn't believe me. We are seeing wrestling numbers decline just like every other sport. Looking back on my high school years, our marching band at Greenbrier East was somewhere around 70-80 kids, now it is more like 35. Our cheerleading squad was something like 18-20 girls and they turned away numerous others that wanted to be a part of the squad, now it is more like 10. Even the football team has taken a hit, but nobody realizes it. Now the team is 54, which looks comparable to the team size from 30 years ago, but back then we had 60-65 kids and the coach would cut 15 or 20. Now everyone who wants to play football is on the team, no cuts.

This is not some weird anomaly. A report just came out last week from the WVDE predicting a decline in student population between 2000 and 8000 students for next year. People are leaving our state and they are taking their kids with them. You can not take an average of 40-160 students out of every county per year and not see a decline in athletic participation over time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the original subject...

The WVSSAC already allows two scrimmages per year, so I am not sure how adding an occasional dual or tri during the week adds much to the sport. I don't dislike the idea, I am just not sure how it helps. I envision parents complaining about having to come pick up their kid during the week, complaining about them wrestling on a school night and then on the weekends too...blah, blah, blah. Then there is the conflict with basketball, because using the gym one night per week either disrupts their practice schedule or disrupts their game plans. Sounds like a lot of headache to me.

I am game for anything that helps the sport, and if that would help then I am all for it.

coach basketball is a game. Kids that aren't any good would play ball all day because it's fun. Wrestling on the other hand is a grind! Only the mentally tough and strong survive. The fact is wrestling is just too hard for these lazy kids nowadays. I have stomped out a few play station and X boxes in my day. I tell them go climb a dam tree or something. Get off the video games and cel phones!

R u using your cell phone or your computer or your iPad to post

[aacoach52]

IMO we as coaches have more than enough weigh ins to work with. We have kids getting 50-60+ matches per year. We now have kids approaching 200 wins. Do we really need this. In four years of college wrestling on a great team, the vast majority of our matches were duals. We had a longer season with fewer matches. The fans came to watch. I have asked local coaches about just having a dual and they are all calling it a wasted weigh in. I think the best thing we can do is find a quality dual or two to give the kids a break and let the fans have a day where it is just your team against their team. Use the sound system, introduce the wrestlers, keep the team score on the score board, even play some music. Make it an event. Bring in the short roster for exhibition matches before the main event to accommodate those teams and include those matches with your jv matches but make the main event an event for everyone to enjoy.
My hope is that this would eliminate the forfeits and the teams trading pins. I really get disappointed whe I see matches like those highlighted earlier that end up as all pins. It is better than forfeits but it would be nice to see a majority of the matches go the distance and some coaching moves to create strategy.
Just what I think.

[dunbar76]

I like the idea of more duals. Mostly for the reasons stated above. I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Try the 1/2 weigh in for a few years. The all day dual tournaments 4-5 matches in the same day 8-10 for two days, I think, lead to more injuries, and more pins. Although, I'll admit, I do not have data to back that up. Only a hunch.

[mattman]

I highly respect the coaching staff at Edinboro, but I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment. Basketball leagues have tournaments that last all day for several days in a row and I don't see basketball's numbers declining. At our former middle school the different sports teams took turns working the concession stand during the middle school tournament and, if memory serves me correctly, it lasted for 3 or 4 days.

I keep saying this, but I think everyone doesn't believe me. We are seeing wrestling numbers decline just like every other sport. Looking back on my high school years, our marching band at Greenbrier East was somewhere around 70-80 kids, now it is more like 35. Our cheerleading squad was something like 18-20 girls and they turned away numerous others that wanted to be a part of the squad, now it is more like 10. Even the football team has taken a hit, but nobody realizes it. Now the team is 54, which looks comparable to the team size from 30 years ago, but back then we had 60-65 kids and the coach would cut 15 or 20. Now everyone who wants to play football is on the team, no cuts.

This is not some weird anomaly. A report just came out last week from the WVDE predicting a decline in student population between 2000 and 8000 students for next year. People are leaving our state and they are taking their kids with them. You can not take an average of 40-160 students out of every county per year and not see a decline in athletic participation over time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the original subject...

The WVSSAC already allows two scrimmages per year, so I am not sure how adding an occasional dual or tri during the week adds much to the sport. I don't dislike the idea, I am just not sure how it helps. I envision parents complaining about having to come pick up their kid during the week, complaining about them wrestling on a school night and then on the weekends too...blah, blah, blah. Then there is the conflict with basketball, because using the gym one night per week either disrupts their practice schedule or disrupts their game plans. Sounds like a lot of headache to me.

I am game for anything that helps the sport, and if that would help then I am all for it.

coach basketball is a game. Kids that aren't any good would play ball all day because it's fun. Wrestling on the other hand is a grind! Only the mentally tough and strong survive. The fact is wrestling is just too hard for these lazy kids nowadays. I have stomped out a few play station and X boxes in my day. I tell them go climb a dam tree or something. Get off the video games and cel phones!

R u using your cell phone or your computer or your iPad to post

No Frank, these phones now actually read my thoughts and post what I'm thinking. This Siri chick is amazing! Lol

[greencrush]

i would offer that a good suggestion would be that weekday duals become a base +3 minimum. Maybe that would help. All that would need to happen to implement this idea would be to add to the number of weigh ins as opposed to eliminating the weigh in.

Ive said for years that the upper weights (170's-HW) that there should be another class. Example 168, 177, 186, 205, 220, and HW.

They just added a weight class in there a few years ago. It used to be 171, 189, 215, 285. Boom. Those weight classes were meat grinders, especially 152-171. Now they're watered down.
All of the kids who used to cut down significantly to get to 171 just wrestle182 now, and all of the kids who used to cut to 160 to get away from the big kids cutting down from the low to mid-180s stay at 170 now.
Adding another weight would just water down what used to be the best weight classes even more.

Bottom line: I don't see how distributing an already sparse group of wrestlers over a greater number of weight classes is going to help things.

[sugarbear]

Indyhart. Great post!

I really like several of the ideas on this topic. I have a son on the East Fairmont team and in the last two years we have hosted one home tournament, one or two tri/quads and a dual or two

The attendance for the evening weekday duals bring a lot of promotion for our youth clubs and middle school clubs. After our tri with North and Indy I asked my son who had several friends who had never been to a wrestling event in attendance what they said. The response went something like "that was the craziest atmosphere I ever seen in our gym". "Crazy intense" "when is the next one?" "I had no idea wrestling was so real". They didn't ask... why singlets or make the normal
Jokes that we have all heard to many times.

During that dual we had two youth programs and two middle school programs attending and it absolutely promotes the sport in our community. It's tough to think of adding matches tho, We have been beat to pieces this season with injuries. We had 5 starters out for WSAZ and travelled to Point tonight with that and maybe more missing. Fortunately we have several kids to fill in some and it is a great opportunity for them to step up and get some varsity matches.

I really like the idea of adding a weight allowance and using a 1/2 point weigh in for those events. The key to these duals is getting teams that have nearly full rosters and be competitive with one another. I'd love to see us return the favor Indy did for us and travel to them next season. I like the idea of wrestling the Parkersburg teams every year. I think for it to work, the duals need to be matches that generate interest and idk what the does to our states smaller programs.

I'm pretty sure there was a dual or two this year that had 3 maybe 4 matches total and the rest... forfeits. It's a long and grinding few months and I personnaly enjoy the dual matches over a bracketed tourney. The idea of the team competing together. That one 2nd year kid wrestles a two time state champion and can help the team win by not being majored or pinned. Victory achieved even when losing on the match scorecard.