Time for 3 classes

[baxter841]

The idea excites me and I think other small schools. As being form a school that has dropped form AA to A next year - I really like the idea of dividing into 3 classes - I think it would spark interest from the smaller schools and make each championship interesting ( team race ) With time I really believe there will be an increased # of wrestlers participating.
other sports are in 3 classes, why not wrestling? golf, track, basketball, football, etc ( cross country should go to 3 as well) the 3 classes has increased the exposure for the smaller schools.

Those wanting a one class tourney ( hold one the week before regionals ) you also have the wsazs and so on.

We have 3 classes and plenty of schools with wrestling - divide them up!!! And.... I think the sport will grow!!!


below are the numbers From Jenny Hannan's post earlier this season

Schools by Class with 2017 Enrollment Figures:

Class AAA
Cabell Midland 1,965
Morgantown 1,808
Parkersburg 1,798
Huntington 1,658
Parkersburg South 1,576
Musselman 1,525
Jefferson 1,515
Wheeling Park 1,514
Woodrow Wilson 1,351
Martinsburg 1,313
Capital 1,275
University 1,264
Spring Mills 1,252
Hurricane 1,237
Hedgesville 1,228
Riverside 1,207
Preston 1,205
Washington 1,172
Greenbrier East 1,171
George Washington 1,098
John Marshall 1,082
Spring Valley 1,050
Buckhannon-Upshur 1,037
Hampshire 1,036
Princeton 1,018
St. Albans 1,012
South Charleston 968
Brooke 963
Ripley 933


Class AA
Lincoln County 871
Winfield 861
Oak Hill 851
Shady Spring 849
Elkins 833
Fairmont Senior 811
Robert C. Byrd 780
North Marion 775
Herbert Hoover 770
Bridgeport 762
Nitro 759
Lewis County 757
Logan 757
Point Pleasant 751
East Fairmont 746
Nicholas County 720
Berkeley Springs 719
Mingo Central 699
PikeView 693
Philip Barbour 680
Bluefield 675
Keyser 670
Roane County 668
Sissonville 637
Grafton 636
Weir 628
Independence 628
Braxton County 580
Frankfort 566
Liberty (Harrison) 564
Lincoln 562
Liberty (Raleigh) 557
Poca 552
Clay County 551
Oak Glen 544
Wyoming East 542
River View 498
Petersburg 486
Ravenswood 433



Class A
Ravenswood 433
Tyler Consolidated 422
Magnolia 414
Williamstown 413
Webster County 412
Ritchie County 409
Moorefield 406
Greenbrier West 392
South Harrison 391
St. Marys 391
Richwood 383
Doddridge County 342
Buffalo 341
Midland Trail 338
Fayetteville 326
Wirt County 301
Calhoun County 293
Wahama 246
East Hardy 243
Cameron 240
Clay-Battelle 230
Madonna 179
St. Joseph 152
Notre Dame 145

[wvgymrott]

I for one agree totally

[coach1988]

Saw the post and had to create an account to so that I could respond.

I 100 % agree!!!!! and I know of several other small schools that do also. ( in fact there is talk of single A schools getting together and holding some informal tournament in the future )

But the wvssac should just divide the classes up and make it official!!!!

I do think more kids would come out and the level at the smaller classes would improve really fast with the increased participation.

I would love to see 3 classes - our sport and the smaller schools deserve every bit as much as other sports!!!!

[coach_williams]

I don't see how having 3 instead of 2 classes has much of an impact. Indy is consistently at the top of the AA/A list and consistently one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the state overall, yet they are 27th in AA/A school size and 56th in the state in school size. Morgantown is the 2nd largest AAA school in the state, yet they finished 26th in team points at states and I believe only had one wrestler place. Parkersburg South is only the 5th largest AAA school, but they have been the team champions at states for 6 of the last 8 years and placed top 3 the other two years.

My point? School size and AAA/AA/A classification do not matter as much as promotion and support of the sport within the school itself by the coaching staff and administration. Show me a school with a top wrestling program in this state and I can virtually guarantee you that the administration and coaches of other sports promote wrestling. Show me a school with a large enough student body to have a wrestling team that can't seem to come up with one and I can virtually guarantee you that the administration doesn't like/support wrestling or the coaches of other sports talk negatively about wrestling or outright forbid their athletes from wrestling.

[JakeSmith_197]

3 Classes would not grow West Virginia wrestling at all. If you want wrestling in the state to develop and grow, then you need to raise the competition and that can be accomplished by lowering it to one class.

[Swipes157]

Three divisions would be horrible for the state and not accomplish the growth of wrestling in our state. In the case of the reclassification to a three team championship this would still not make the team championship race interesting in any way. You would still be chasing a clear champion in each class with Parkersburg South, Indy, and Calhoun being leaps and bounds above everyone else in there divisions. Everybody talks about the big matches and wants to see the big matches happen on the biggest stage, this would be created by a single state championship. Just some food for thought.

[aaacoach11]

One class 32 man bracket with 8 regions. Top 4 qualify from each region.

Also, dual state tournament for 3 different classes. Top 8 schools in each class go to duals style tournament.

[Wrestler220]

One class 32 man bracket with 8 regions. Top 4 qualify from each region.

Also, dual state tournament for 3 different classes. Top 8 schools in each class go to duals style tournament.

See, but I feel like the kids that barely have a chance of placing now would just quit because they don't have a chance anymore. Yes, it would weed out the weaker or less dedicated wrestlers, but overall there would be less wrestlers as a whole

[troutmaster]

I know here at Greenbrier west we have less than 400 students but we have been pretty successful over the last 10 years, and it takes a lot of people being on the same page meaning, high school coaches, middle school coaches, youth coaches and parents all working together to build a program. it is not easy but can be done. we started by coaching other sports such as football baseball and got to know the kids and encouraged them to wrestle, got the community to buy in. one of the biggest thing I believe is working in the off season ie camps open tournaments, etc and the biggest thing imo is the parent that is willing to sacrifice there time to make this happen and when you can't you will be able to find someone you can trust and they will take your child and you can pay it forward later

[Bearhug]

Run it like the OVAC, one class and crown a AAA, AA, and A team title. Also Crown an Undisputed team title. Last thing, I love Rocky, but is it time to have a new intro song for the parade of champions?

[guard0544]

One class 32 man bracket with 8 regions. Top 4 qualify from each region.

Also, dual state tournament for 3 different classes. Top 8 schools in each class go to duals style tournament.

See, but I feel like the kids that barely have a chance of placing now would just quit because they don't have a chance anymore. Yes, it would weed out the weaker or less dedicated wrestlers, but overall there would be less wrestlers as a whole

Do the football players on teams who have little chance of making it to the state tournament quit? Do the basketball players who are on teams that have little chance of making the state tournament quit? I just dont buy into the argument that there are a large number of wrestlers who are simply going to quit if they do not feel they have a great shot at placing top 6 at states.

But, if we did go all in one class, I feel it would be appropriate to award the top 8 wrestlers, as opposed to the current top 6...so at least two more are getting on the podium than otherwise would be.

[Frank]

Keep two classes
Merge aaa and aa together and see if a will grow.
I don't know if this will work either but I'm not sold on combining all three. I see more negitive then positive.

[aaacoach33]

If there were 3 classes, making it to states would mean nothing. Heck, there would be byes in some brackets. There would be kids with zero wins as state qualifiers. One class state tournament is the answer. Add a sectional.

[aacoach61]

To be a WV state champion in wrestling is a big deal, and to dilute the talent to 3 classes in such a small state takes some shine off the trophy. We are not track and field and I don't like the idea of a watered-down Class A champion.

When I coached a returning AA/A state champ, I went out of my way to take the team over 200 miles round trip to Fairmont's Winner's Choice Tournament to make sure he wrestled the returning AAA state champ his senior year. In fact, our small school kid won the OW that year at Winners Choice.

Never dodge competition in wrestling; instead, embrace it.

We should welcome how tough it is to win in a large AA/A field. In fact, we should instead think of going back to a single class like we had in the 1970s with only one state champion in each weight class.

[Realwrestling]

Wow just when it cannot get any worse, someone wanted 3 classes! Having 2 is bad enough as it is. WV does not have enough schools to have 3 let alone 2 classes
It is watered down enough. Next time go google all of the states "ONE" class state championships and see how many go to college.. Why? The competition is much tougher to win the state title!

[Sj154_69]

It could just be the time to go back to the one class states. Like some of the other sports instead of a bigger state tournament start with sectionals and regionals. The end result could be the same size for the state tournament. The WVSSAC would make more money since they have the sectionals along with the others. It seems that the administration looks at wrestling as just another sport that doesn't produce money for them. They should be looking at the overall value the sport has for the young kids that get a chance to improve their athletic ability and develop into fine young men and women. I am sure it can be worked out if we could just get someone to listen to the different ideas.

I honestly don't agree with the way they have split up the regionals. I hope they stop and take the time to look at it and not just say it is wrestling let them just deal with it.

[wvuptc]

I would be interested to see how many of you that want one class are not A programs. Most of the guys I have talked to that want that are in AAA programs, with little participation. I don't understand why all AAA programs cannot field a full team.

Coach Stump submitted a proposal to the WVSSAC 4-5 years ago, to no avail. There is a guy who has never ran from competition, and he felt it was important to go to 3 classes. As someone who works there tail off to build a program and do all the things that Greenbrier West was talking about; I can tell you that it is still VERY TOUGH to get a full team. At the end of the day, we all can agree that our society is not producing as many hard nosed kids for whatever reason. Therefore, we are not going to get as many kids to buy into the wrestling LIFESTYLE, not sport! When you are a A program, and have 350 kids, you are limited as to what you can do. Look at the Cameron program for example! They were a power-house in the day, but they don't have the same types of kids that want to sacrifice (my guess only and no disrespect towards their program intended).

The comment about football and basketball not going to state, etc. is null and void. We cannot sugar coat wrestling and make kids want to be a part of the flash and lights that those sports can.

As to the 'A' unofficial tournament: it is going to happen! All but one school has committed to my understanding. Hopefully, it is a wake-up call to the WVSSAC! I know it will be a recruiting technique for me to get more kids out.

[baxter841]

I was beginning to wander if any other small schools were gong to speak up - Thank you!!
By next years regional map from this website - there are 28 single A schools participating in wrestling, 29 AAA schools and 38 AA schools.
Divide them up!!!
No way we go to one class
and how can we have 66 schools competing together for A/AA while only 29 compete in AAA
Maybe Mr Dolan from the WVSSAC already has the idea of splitting the classes,
I can come up with no other explanation for the unbalanced reclassification ( in the past each class has been more evenly distributed)
I just hope the WVSSAC looks at what is best for every class and not just the large schools.

[Gator]

If they want to keep the two classes, why don't they have a student cutoff at around 700 for AAA and anything below in AA/A? That would about split the number of schools in both divisions. (Although I would like to see Indy in AAA) Next year's AA/A regionals are going to have 16/17 teams in each, which will probably take 2 days to run.

I don't have a problem with running an all class tournament with team titles going to AAA.AA and A. The smaller schools in the OVAC conference don't have a problem with wrestling the larger schools. Several of their wrestlers win also. Kudos to Magnolia for winning their first small school title this year at the OVAC and crowning their first champion.

Lots of great ideas posted on here. I honestly don't know what the solution could be, just know that things are headed in a bad direction.

[baxter841]

Good points Gator!!

[Gutorone]

Raise the competition, instead of lowering the bar !!! I would rather have less good/great wrestling , than have to watch some of the flailing about that I witnessed Thursday. We already have kids with 10-27 records at states (just an example) but eight wins were by forfeits. Not all kids are cut out for this sport ! I do not wish to step on toes or insult , but enough ! Have seen kids on the mat that look like grandma Clampett in a bathing suit. They on team so team does not have to forfeit in a dual. This is dangerous !!

[zmoisey125]

I visited the West Virginia state tournament this weekend and I saw some good wrestling. If you look at the top states in the country PA,CA, and NJ they all have 1 or 2 divisions. This is the best way to grow high school wrestling and have more wrestles get a chance to compete collegiately after highschool wether it be D1, D2 or D3. The top wrestlers must be tested by competing against the other top wrestlers. Seperating them into different divisions will lower the talent level and not alow the best kids to keep getting better. For the not so talented kids the only way to get better is to take the loses from the good kids, progress and learn from them. In my opinion to grow WV wrestling it should be 1 division.

[GsUpChooseDown]

1 class settles 98% of all arguments that happen on this thread......I'm for it! Let them get after it! Iron sharpens iron!

[admin]

If one looks at this year' regionals, totals the number of entries by team, and calculates the average number of entries per weight class, and projects this to NEXT year' alignments, it looks like this:

AAA - 5-8 wrestlers per wt class in the regionals

17aaa.pdf

2016 AAA state tournament projected to 2017

(16.56 KiB) Downloaded 314 times

AA/A - 8-12 wrestlers per wt class in the regionals

17aa.pdf

2016 AA/A state tournament projected to 2017

(30.53 KiB) Downloaded 301 times

If one were to break AA/A into 2 divisions, AA and A, by splitting the AA/A regions for next year, one arrives at

AA - 7-11 wrestlers per wt class in the regionals
A - 2-5 wrestlers per wt class in the regionals

17aasplit.pdf

2016 AA/A state tournament projected to 2017 if AA/A were split

(32.87 KiB) Downloaded 302 times

[Bearhugger]

To my knowledge, both Capital and South Charleston qualified one wrestler each for the state tournament. I did not spend the time looking this up, I am operating off of memory.

Now, if we move all of WV wrestling to one class, then these two schools are going to find more wrestlers within their 1,000 plus student bodies?

Better yet, we bring in plenty of "iron" from out of state to sharpen our "iron" and this will get more kids out for the sport????

Maybe the talk needs to be more about "wrestling" rather than "winning a state title"???

Maybe too many kids know they can't win a state title, so they do not participate in the SPORT?

Back when I wrestled, we just went out for the team. We wrestled. It wasn't that much about winning gold. It was just about wrestling.

[Frank]

With AAA slowly merging with AA. I think it might be smart to attempt to grow the number programs in single A. Give single A chance to grow and stand on its own. Triple AAA and double AA are growing closer with ever realignment. I think the start of the answer is more wrestler and more wrestling programs. Or you won't have much iron to sharpen your iron.

[Bearhugger]

With AAA slowly merging with AA. I think it might be smart to attempt to grow the number programs in single A. Give single A chance to grow and stand on its own. Triple AAA and double AA are growing closer with ever realignment. I think the start of the answer is more wrestler and more wrestling programs. Or you won't have much iron to sharpen your iron.

Good point. In reality, the difference between most AA and AAA teams is minimal.

[aacoach52]

As a soccer coach I was told that in order to split the classes there has to be enough teams in place at each level. If this is still the case and cross country which has something like 93 teams in AA-A has not split into three classes then wrestling will not be splitting any time soon.
As for my opinion on whether or should be 1 or 2 or 3 classes, I agree that someone that wins an all classes championship would have achieved more but what about all of the wrestlers that are just out there to have fun and learn? I think that since we're all on here we agree that wrestling is a great sport and has helped many athletes become better adults even if they weren't a state champ or went on to wrestle on the next level.
A lot of people say wrestling isn't for everyone but I disagree. That 10-27 kid that was "flailing" around out there this year may be the one on the podium next year or he may not even qualify again. Either way, he or she will still benefit from the sport of wrestling.

[aacoach52]

Also, I can see AAA suffering greatly the next four years because the number of schools now in that class. With all of the rants about alignments and classes, I'm really surprised more people didn't fight to get the classifications more even.
5-8 wrestlers per class per regional is pretty low.

[GsUpChooseDown]

To my knowledge, both Capital and South Charleston qualified one wrestler each for the state tournament. I did not spend the time looking this up, I am operating off of memory.

Now, if we move all of WV wrestling to one class, then these two schools are going to find more wrestlers within their 1,000 plus student bodies?

Better yet, we bring in plenty of "iron" from out of state to sharpen our "iron" and this will get more kids out for the sport????

Maybe the talk needs to be more about "wrestling" rather than "winning a state title"???

Maybe too many kids know they can't win a state title, so they do not participate in the SPORT?

Back when I wrestled, we just went out for the team. We wrestled. It wasn't that much about winning gold. It was just about wrestling.

Valid points....however IMO one class could also increase participation along with how hard wrestlers train. I mean if you're a wrestler you have to be competitive, correct? No one wants to just toe the line wanting to get pinned, even though I'm sure that happens. One class, again IMO, could create more kids to come out knowing that they have the opportunity to be the lone man on the mountain come Feb. Without all the scrutiny created on social forums about could-a, should-a, would-a. How exciting would it be to watch another Humphrey's vs Moore match along with all the other match ups? There were some finals match ups that weren't even close this year, to me that is what takes away from this sport.